226161 Bullies, 3799 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 59
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 12 3456 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:24pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    For the whos and whys of this program, see the first post of this thread.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29071

    It could be subtitled, "how not to establish a bolt on grappling program".

    Could you imagine one of these guys up against a legitimate BJJ with two years of solid training?

    Someone who just came in to roll, could make the entire class and instructor look very foolish.
    No.
    However, I could send Jeff Smith in to kickbox or fight with just about any 25 year old
    instructor in the country and he would make them look foolish. And, he qualifies for an AARP card. That doesn't make what they are teaching bad (although it certainly may be, I claim no special BJJ expertise.)

    Clearly FIGHTING Ability is not the only sign of a qualiity instructor. And, many GREAT fighters are really bad teachers - usually worse school operators.

    Stephen Oliver.
    http://www.ExtraordinaryMarketing.com
  2. OnceLost is offline
    OnceLost's Avatar

    Here's looking at you, squid.

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    2,860

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you don't know your ****, you shouldn't be teaching it. The old adage of "Those who do, do, and those can't teach," is a bunch of poppycock. You're insulting a large number of people (fighters and school operators) by calling their instruction substandard - does your program actually change the method and manner of their instruction or does it just jazz them up with a marketing re-fit?
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  3. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,864

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 2:17pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    No.
    However, I could send Jeff Smith in to kickbox or fight with just about any 25 year old
    instructor in the country and he would make them look foolish. And, he qualifies for an AARP card. That doesn't make what they are teaching bad (although it certainly may be, I claim no special BJJ expertise.)

    Clearly FIGHTING Ability is not the only sign of a qualiity instructor. And, many GREAT fighters are really bad teachers - usually worse school operators.

    Stephen Oliver.
    http://www.ExtraordinaryMarketing.com
    True that fighting ability is not the only sign of a quality instructor, but we judge cus demato (sp) by his students rather than his own skills. A good instructor turns out students who can fight and they are generally pretty visable.

    Now BJJ is an art which is very tactile, its based on feel. Why does a certain hold work or not work and how do you flow into or obtain position? Its mostly small mechanics done well. Stuff that the average person takes at least two years to learn, before they understand it well enough to teach this material.

    I could enroll Jeff Smith in this BJJ program as a teacher and unless he has a black belt in Judo he'd be lost. Oh, he could stomp anyone in his school with his kickboxing ability, but he would have to start learning BJJ from scratch. If you advertise BJJ you should be able to actually teach BJJ. Now I know that some Korean schools are famous for TKD instructors advertising backgrounds in Hapkido and Yudo without knowing diddly about either, but its really unfair to the students, which leads us back to ill-advised bolt-on programs.
  4. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 3:24pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    True that fighting ability is not the only sign of a quality instructor, but we judge cus demato (sp) by his students rather than his own skills. A good instructor turns out students who can fight and they are generally pretty visable.

    Now BJJ is an art which is very tactile, its based on feel. Why does a certain hold work or not work and how do you flow into or obtain position? Its mostly small mechanics done well. Stuff that the average person takes at least two years to learn, before they understand it well enough to teach this material.

    I could enroll Jeff Smith in this BJJ program as a teacher and unless he has a black belt in Judo he'd be lost. Oh, he could stomp anyone in his school with his kickboxing ability, but he would have to start learning BJJ from scratch. If you advertise BJJ you should be able to actually teach BJJ. Now I know that some Korean schools are famous for TKD instructors advertising backgrounds in Hapkido and Yudo without knowing diddly about either, but its really unfair to the students, which leads us back to ill-advised bolt-on programs.
    I agree.

    Lots of lousy schools try to do whatever seems popular at the time and, of course do it poorly. Many otherwise excellent schools practically ran themselves out of business by trying to become Tae Bo (Cardio Kickboxing) schools then BJJ schools when the trends hit. Stupid.

    I agree totally - also that the best way to evaluate an instructor is on the ability of their students.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,988

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 4:25pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anybody agree that this thread should be merged with the other or is this better format?
  6. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 6:04pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I disagree.

    If anything perhaps there should be a bullshido - martial arts business information section - which includes stuff included as a separate and distinct area for schools owners rather than enthusiasts.
    Opportunity to exchange opinions on school operations materials & support available.

    Stephen Oliver.
  7. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 6:17pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What makes a great teacher...

    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    If you don't know your ****, you shouldn't be teaching it. The old adage of "Those who do, do, and those can't teach," is a bunch of poppycock. You're insulting a large number of people (fighters and school operators) by calling their instruction substandard - does your program actually change the method and manner of their instruction or does it just jazz them up with a marketing re-fit?
    Those who do, do. True if you don't know your material you can't teach it. Great athletes often are excellent due to excellent genetics, dedication, and a great teacher or coach. Many of these same superstar athletes - in part since what they do has become so natural ("unconscious competence") that they are unable to explain it well to someone less gifted. The worst teacher will have a superstar now and then as well - some people will rise to the top regarless.

    No intent to insult great athletes but, the skill set for teaching is different and the mindset is completely different. There are many (Mike Swain, Jeff Smith, Steve LaVallee, Dave Kovar, Joe Lewis, Lloyd Irvin, and many, many others) who have transitioned from being a great athlete to a great athlete & teacher. Many others did not. Some of the worst teachers I've employed were the best athletes - but spent their time on their own training, watching themselves in the mirror, and looking for accolades regarding their own accomplishments. NOT focused on making their students excellent. I've even trained with martial arts teachers who were excellent - but, fearful of their students surpassing them. That should be a teachers greatest compliment.

    A great teacher produces great students AND, helps the highest percentage of those who begin training to achieve their peronal potential. Period.

    Look at any sport. Occasionally a great quarterback becomes an excellent coach - most often they don't. Often a great coach was never a star player.

    My Coaching Program helps to improve all aspects of their school including many times curriculum & teaching methodology. Other programs such as NAPMA Squared & Extraordinary Marketing focus on the business aspects without much emphasis on curriculum or teaching methods.

    Obviously Mile High Karate instructors have a complete system, teaching training, and high expectations of personal excellence to be placed in that role to begin with.

    Stephen Oliver.
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,988

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:23pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Those who do, do. True if you don't know your material you can't teach it. Great athletes often are excellent due to excellent genetics, dedication, and a great teacher or coach. Many of these same superstar athletes - in part since what they do has become so natural ("unconscious competence") that they are unable to explain it well to someone less gifted. The worst teacher will have a superstar now and then as well - some people will rise to the top regarless.

    No intent to insult great athletes but, the skill set for teaching is different and the mindset is completely different. There are many (Mike Swain, Jeff Smith, Steve LaVallee, Dave Kovar, Joe Lewis, Lloyd Irvin, and many, many others) who have transitioned from being a great athlete to a great athlete & teacher. Many others did not. Some of the worst teachers I've employed were the best athletes - but spent their time on their own training, watching themselves in the mirror, and looking for accolades regarding their own accomplishments. NOT focused on making their students excellent. I've even trained with martial arts teachers who were excellent - but, fearful of their students surpassing them. That should be a teachers greatest compliment.

    A great teacher produces great students AND, helps the highest percentage of those who begin training to achieve their peronal potential. Period.

    Look at any sport. Occasionally a great quarterback becomes an excellent coach - most often they don't. Often a great coach was never a star player.

    My Coaching Program helps to improve all aspects of their school including many times curriculum & teaching methodology. Other programs such as NAPMA Squared & Extraordinary Marketing focus on the business aspects without much emphasis on curriculum or teaching methods.

    Obviously Mile High Karate instructors have a complete system, teaching training, and high expectations of personal excellence to be placed in that role to begin with.

    Stephen Oliver.
    I like the Kovar brothers. How do you feel about Rob Colasanti?
  9. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:50pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
    I like the Kovar brothers. How do you feel about Rob Colasanti?
    Yeah, Tim & Dave are among my favorite people in the world. 1,000's of students, excellent martial arts, and unlimited sincerity. We've "borrowed" lots of stuff back and forth from each other RE teaching and school operations.

    Rob: Great guy. He's very knowledgable. His book is excellent. He's doing a great job with NAPMA & with MA Professional Magazine, huge contribution to the industry.
    FYI. http://www.NAPMA.com

    Stephen Oliver.
  10. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:55pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    is BJJ program as a teacher and unless he has a black belt in Judo he'd be lost. Oh, he could stomp anyone in his school with his kickboxing ability, but he would have to start learning BJJ from scratch. If you advertise BJJ you should be able to actually teach BJJ. Now I know that some Korean schools are famous for TKD instructors advertising backgrounds in Hapkido and Yudo without knowing diddly about either, but its really unfair to the students, which leads us back to ill-advised bolt-on programs.
    RE Jeff Smith. He actually fought in some of the EARLY Mixed Martial Arts events - one was held in Hawaii - and, won. Certainly though what you say is absolutely true.

    RE Korean Schools - unfortunately that's very true. LOTS of instructors in the U.S. who may be excellent at their base style claiming instruction (& Mastery) is BJJ or some other grapling style (before that it was they were ALL Kickboxing experts as well) without knowing much if anything.

    Many of them attending a weekend seminar and became an Overnight Grappling Expert.
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 12 3456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.