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  1. lucky_money is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 4:57pm


     Style: kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Sigung: Moy Tung Anthony Dandridge (student of Moy Yat)



    The Sifu: Stewart Zeno (student of Anthony Dandridge)



    The thread already made on their board less than 24 hours:

    http://moyyatrichmond.com/v-web/bull...topic.php?t=82

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    did you ever think about checking out that BJJ school that made your sifu go kinda bonkers? Or are you only interested in kung fu?
    I am interested in all martial arts. There is no superior martial art. If there was, then the inferior ones would have died off by now. The BJJ school near us that sifu was talking about was www.richmondbjj.com Ė a good school.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKing
    . If I'm paying 75$, 100$, 150$ or more for your service it better darn well be done professionally in a proper environment or I have no patience for it.

    In my opinion alot of that "old school" attitude is laziness.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locu5
    When was the last time your former sifu or any of his students contacted you?
    Months. They stopped after I sent an email saying to leave me alone and that I was out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    I'm sorry you didn't find what you are looking for and instead found this. Still, this seems more McDojo than Bullshido.


    Please give the names of the people involved and I'll look into it. Do they have a website?
    No. The branch that I trained at did not have a website, but the main website for Moy Tungís clan is: http://www.moyyatrichmond.com

    Moy Tung Anothony Dandridge can be seen here:

    http://www.kungfu-videos.com/kung_fu_in_action.html

    This: http://www.kungfu-videos.com website is for his Iowa school.
    There is no information about Sifu Stuart Zeno on the web.

    The other guy on the main page at http://www.moyyatrichmond.com known as Moy Yee Tung, is Sifu Marcus Evans. I met him on several occasions. He reminded me of a used car salesman. He tried to sell me pirated DVD copies of Moy Yat Videos for $75-100.


    Thank you for taking the time to look into my claims.


    Quote Originally Posted by kickcatcher
    I am concerned that you have accused people of tax evasion and drug dealing. If so, you should be reporting them to the appropriate legal authorities not writting bitching reviews about it. If you don't have any proof, or it's just a hunch, then you ought to reword those parts of your review.
    I have no proof. Donít believe me then. I am ďbitchingĒ about this because I donít want anyone else to be taken advantaged of by these people. Where was my money going then? I saw the marijuana plants with the heat lights in a closet. My eyes do not lie. You think thatís just his personal stash? That heís never EVER sold some it for money? These people call themselves a business. Iím not talking about the gifts. Iím talking about the Cash I paid for kungfu instruction. You and I both know my sifu took the $400 I paid to be a ďspecial personalĒ student and blew it on crap. Thatís why I stopped paying. I knew what he was doing with the money. I thought about giving gift certificates to grocery stores that didnít sell alcohol so I knew that my money was going to be going to a GOOD cause. Food. I filled out forms though. ďBusinessĒ forms with my signature and statements of the amount of money I paid. Where are these forms now? What criteria do you have to possess in to be classified as a business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amp
    At any time at this school...did you actually try fighting w/ what they were teaching you, or did you just accept thier word as gospel?

    Just curious if the training was bullshit, or just the business aspect of the school.
    I accepted their word. We did no full contact sparing. I have never been in a fight before. We did some rough or if you want to call it ďsillyĒ chi sao that was more like sifu showing me how much control he had over my body.

    I donít know if the training was bullshit or not. How am I suppose to know? We worked out: forms, applications, techniques, and then chi sao. I felt confident with what I knew, but I knew there was someone always better, so I knew I couldnít have been THAT good. Thereís always a bigger and stronger parson out there.

    For that matter, NONE of the students of the school competed in any competitions/ fights. So it is impossible to know if the things I learned were in fact effective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ten-ten
    My best friend trained at that school the same time I started TKD. After a while he started telling me things about the instructor that never seemed right. He left after he read an article about martial art cults in a TKD magazine. He found another school that gave him better instruction and a better atmosphere.
    Who was your friend? I probably know him. What was the other school he went to?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    Hell, when people are having trouble at my school, my sifu tells them not to worry about it and that their kung-fu is more important than money. Selfish kung-fu is bad kung-fu. And my sifu is NOT in the position to be telling people not to worry about paying tuition.
    My sifu said THE EXACT SAME THING. Selfish Kung Fu. Evil Kung Fu. Oh don't worry about the money. These poor little intro studnets would come in who responded to the "FREE KUNGFU LESSONS" ad they saw, wondering how much lessons actually cost. My sifu would say "Oh don't worry about the money now, just have fun and try to learn." Then if people made it through the 3 FREE, TOTALLY FREE introductory classes we'd let them in on actual prices. But we were flexible OH COURSE! Flexibility is great! :5bouncy:
    Last edited by lucky_money; 2/22/2006 5:01pm at .
  2. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 5:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky_money
    My sifu said THE EXACT SAME THING. Selfish Kung Fu. Evil Kung Fu. Oh don't worry about the money. These poor little intro studnets would come in who responded to the "FREE KUNGFU LESSONS" ad they saw, wondering how much lessons actually cost. My sifu would say "Oh don't worry about the money now, just have fun and try to learn." Then if people made it through the 3 FREE, TOTALLY FREE introductory classes we'd let them in on actual prices. But we were flexible OH COURSE! Flexibility is great! :5bouncy:
    I have seen this pattern before. Three free intro classes (with included uniform) is the number of the beast. At a real school you jump straight into the program and if you don't get your ass kicked hard enough to impress you into signing up then that's it.
  3. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 5:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Make sure to keep all of your documentation, including anything you signed (contracts, agreements, etc). It would also be good for you to have documentation from him letting you out of your contract.

    Where are you looking at training now? (if you stated at some point, I missed it)
  4. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 5:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky_money
    I have no proof. Donít believe me then. I am ďbitchingĒ about this because I donít want anyone else to be taken advantaged of by these people. Where was my money going then? I saw the marijuana plants with the heat lights in a closet. My eyes do not lie. You think thatís just his personal stash? That heís never EVER sold some it for money? These people call themselves a business. Iím not talking about the gifts. Iím talking about the Cash I paid for kungfu instruction. You and I both know my sifu took the $400 I paid to be a ďspecial personalĒ student and blew it on crap. Thatís why I stopped paying. I knew what he was doing with the money. I thought about giving gift certificates to grocery stores that didnít sell alcohol so I knew that my money was going to be going to a GOOD cause. Food. I filled out forms though. ďBusinessĒ forms with my signature and statements of the amount of money I paid. Where are these forms now? What criteria do you have to possess in to be classified as a business?
    Your legal-fu is weak :icon_excl
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 5:51pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon McNeil
    It technically means "skilled person". I call taxi drivers Sifu regularly when I need something to shout at them to make them stop and pick me up.

    Eh! Shifu.

    In Chinese "Teacher" is pronounced "Laoshe". When we refer to our teachers as Sifu's in Gong Fu it basically is just demonstrating our respect for the fact they know their ****.

    That and we wouldn't call them dad, uncle or grandpa as would have been done two generations ago in China.

    These days Chinese people generally call their teacher "Laoshe" around here though.
    You're confusing the difference between Canto and Mandarin.

    Cantonese MA teachers are called sifu for a reason.

    師父 are the characters for the term pronounced sifu in Canto.

    師 means master/instructor.

    父 means father.

    This fits in with the "family" style set up of many Southern CMA orgs, with the master's wife often being called simo, older male students called sihing, etc...

    So yeah, your whole rant on Laoshe doesn't even apply...
  6. Rhamma is offline

    Not over zealous, but just zealous enough. 病気の粗悪品

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 6:00pm


     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    McDojos

    The trouble in general is that most (not all) of these guy's couldn't or are too lazy to do anything else for a living.

    They figure they would rather do this for a living than manual labor, because most of them have little or no education.

    They have the special tactics to draw in new students;
    Specials
    free uniforms
    black belt club
    limited offers
    contests and...

    my favorite and most incidious - "scholarships" for poor kids
    it fills the place up so it looks busy and then they nail the kids suport structur (usually grandparents) for hugely marked up sparing gear, weapons and when the rent comes due.... time for belt tests.

    The full time martial arts school owners tend (not all of them, but most of them) to be dishonest or at the very least mercenary type people.

    And you are right it is very much like a pyramid scheme. And they attack it with all the gusto of an AMWAY rep.

    As far as the equipment and the school go you can't judge the quality of the teaching by the building.

    I only teach a handful of people and I teach in an Air Force base gym, and an old Jr. High gym in a small town. I made it very clear from the begining that I don't make any money on this, although if someone wants to make money (honestly) I don't have a problem with that. I also only teach at lunch and two night per week. I did not want to get into the dojo buisness because I don't want to have to charge people outragious ammounts to keep my doors open. I have a handful of students, I don't have any customers.

    I spend most of my spare time with my family, and training MYSELF. And going to seminars (real ones) to expand my learning and suport my teacher I am not a customer. I do train people so that I will have people to bounce ideas off of. I think I am a good teacher, but I don't try to teach a room full of people. I have in the past. I didn't like it.

    Bottom line is much is in the eye of the beholder. I am not defending what your old sifu did, but on the surface things can be... well explained away. Some good schools use some of the same tactics, but they are not so vicious about it.

    My advice is this, don't look for a school. Look for a teacher. Look for someone who has knowlege, and good character. Train with that person. Even if you have to travel and do most of your training on your own in your backyard.

    All that being said...

    I would like a sports car tho :car15:
  7. lucky_money is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 6:24pm


     Style: kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamma
    The trouble in general is that most (not all) of these guy's couldn't or are too lazy to do anything else for a living.

    They figure they would rather do this for a living than manual labor, because most of them have little or no education.

    Ö

    My advice is this, don't look for a school. Look for a teacher. Look for someone who has knowlege, and good character. Train with that person. Even if you have to travel and do most of your training on your own in your backyard.

    All that being said...

    I would like a sports car tho :car15:

    Very true. My sifu worked at Subway for a living. He always dreamed of having his own school in his own house where he could just teach and never work his other job again. Thatís why he wanted to expand, so he could afford to do this.


    But Sigung was the one with the fancy sports car. :car15:

    Yes, those who teach in parks and donít really advertise are typically good people because they relie on word of mouth for students. Most of them arenít really searching for students. If they didnít have students they would still be in the park just practicing by themselves.
  8. BlackStalyon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 6:32pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was the scariest post I ever read in my life. Felt life the sifu was trying to suck me in through my computer screen.
  9. I aint punchy!? is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 7:26pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky_money
    I am interested in all martial arts. There is no superior martial art. If there was, then the inferior ones would have died off by now....
    No. You're wrong. Many things are called martial arts and they are practiced in various ways.

    Perhaps it could be said that 'all martial arts have the potential to be effective methods of fighting'... but some arts are more superior simply because of the manner in which the stylists train and condition.

    This is why WC in general is considered sub-par... too many spindly nerds and fat geeks doing chi sau.
  10. Pen15 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2006 7:40pm


     Style: BJJ, MT, KF

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, your school sounded a little money focused......sorry man.

    But what they charge for 4-5 days a week is not really that bad ($1600 / 12 = $133 pre month). I've seen BJJ, MT, boxing schools that charge $150 a month easily!

    They brainwash you and create this confidence inside you making you think you are superior when in fact you are the one being taken advantaged of.
    So do BJJ!! LOL And every other art out there.

    PS: I am not a Wing Chun school student.
    Last edited by Pen15; 2/22/2006 8:17pm at .
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