2/25/2006 3:28pm, #121
Yes, I know now they will stop.
See, you run off at the mouth, you need to learn to let people dig their own hole.
2/25/2006 3:30pm, #122Originally Posted by lucky_money
I don't know how the courts are in your state, but i would say that they breached thier end of the deal right here when they did not provide a safe, place for you to train. If they were having that much finacial problems i bet they did not have liability insurance either.
All bussiness In Indiana must have a working rest room, probably the same there. no running water would be a breach of thier contract because they did not provide a legal "business".
The bulk of my claims are not about drugs.
Well you saw it enough before you quit so dont even bring it up. You have valid points, but this makes it seem like tatel taleing. If it did not bother you enough to quit when you saw it...stfu.
2/25/2006 3:37pm, #123
Originally Posted by lucky "my feelings are hurt" money
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- DETROIT WHAT! (and surrounding upper-class burbs)
- Ving Tsun
No lucky, you are not "defending" yourself as best you can. You are "attacking". And you use any sort of questioning or disagreement to prove "LOOK! THEY ARE ATTACKING ME!!!" Maybe you had a right to bitch. But that's not your point.
I worked with middle-school kids for 4 years as an English teacher. The way you are going about this is classic behavior for a child. You bring up some points. When some of those are reasoned away or explained you bring up new points. Many of your points have nothing to do with your complaint (sifu? the illustrious e-mail that would surprise people and prove your right? weeds? that some people drink alchohol?). You want validation. The reason middle-school kids oftentimes show this behavior is because they don't feel like they "fit in" somewhere and they want others to think of them as important. What you need is a hug. You need people to say, "Oh, you're a good little martial artist and nothing is your fault!"
I'm not giving you a fucking hug.
There are studies that show that every middle-schooler at one point in time would be labeled as clinically schizophrenic. You are showing a lot of those traits. Or maybe you're caught in the phallic stage and either are suffering from penis envy or think you're going to be castrated for being caught masturbating too many times. Anyway though, since you are not reasonable (and probably out of your mind) I'll post some other things for the rest of us here to mull over:
#1 Lucky seems to know just about everyone connected to MAs in VA. He uses them as part of his validation. The guy who teaches at the BJJ school (he later edited out his name, Eric Burdo)? The guy at the MMA school (he later edited out the link to the school)? A random person who does TKD? He even knows enough about Pakua to tell us that he knows a good teacher for it, and enough about a Glen Moore guy to tell us that heís good as well (this is on another post).
#2He brings up a couple of times that tuition didnít include ANY other expenses. This is to help him validate his claims that money is all important. Besides seminar events, what other expenses? There are no testing fees, belt fees, special class fees, or equipment fees. Hell, the $20 shirts arenít even required.
#3lucky continually acts as though everyone who agrees with him is undoubtedly correct. But even his college professor? Wait, since lucky got an A on a paper it proves that he knows everything there is to know about McDojos? "Do you think you have more authority than a college English professor? If my thoughts and ideas were inaccurate and clouded, I donít think I would have gotten an A." Wait, a college professor who knows nothing about martial arts?
He also goes on about how "Other people have stated IN THIS THREAD that they are sorry I lost money." That's his proof? Oooo, someone who has never met any of the people involved is taking his side (very, very classical middle school behavior). I'm not saying people shouldn't take sides. But it's not "proof".
#4lucky needs to feel like he's in charge. He yells at someone for posting OT. He even says "Now that your heart is beating a little faster, letís resume", as if he's caught people and his statements are waterproof. And that was just because someone posted that lucky couldn't handle taking hits in class? Oooo, is my heart... supposed to be beating faster?
#5He goes off about his email will surprise people. And what did that email show? "Thanks for all that you taught me. I had no idea what I was getting myself into.... I'd be glad to help you out. Just email me." Then he says that he WOULD have gone off if he was asked to do a performance eval. He WAS GOING TO. Eh, what?
#6To an apology he responds with "No thatís ok. My feeling are already hurt :(" Dude. Holy crap. Is anyone else laughing at this point?
#7Then of course there is the whole "You think this isnít affecting my life?" Um... he feels ripped off. Now it's consuming him? This is like when I saw a student lose a Pokemon game and start to cry when I wouldn't let him search through everyone's bags to see who "stole" it. He simply couldn't get back to work or calm down, because the only thing he could think about was his Pokemon game. (of course it was in his coat or something, but that's another story).
#8He defends himself by saying that others put him up to things: "I posted their names because people asked me to.... You think this isnít affecting my life?" Um, one person asked for the names. lucky should post them if he really wants, but this is just evidencing again that he doesn't want to take any sort of responsibility.
#9He brings up that he has lots of martial arts training and experience when that suits him. He then brings up that he has no clue how good his kung-fu training was when that seems to suit him. Um, if he is so knowledgeable and experienced wouldn't he at least be able to have a clue? But no, he instead blames it on others. "The way the techniques of WingChun were presented to me...
#10At times he seems reasonable and says things like how maybe he just didn't get along with his personal sifu. Other times he attacks everyone in the organization, including those he's never met. Sometimes he attacks people BEFORE being reasonable (having very inconsistent emotional responses is indicative of the middle school mindset). Sometimes there is nothing between those posts except a 10-minute time period.
#11He continually has to show his approval for anyone who seems to agree with him. He thanks them, tells them they are correct, says how much he agrees, quotes them repeatedly. Seeking validation much?
#12He unreasonably expects people to believe his points even if what he posts has nothing to do with them. Oh, the school is trying to raise money for a court case? Then he reposts the schools explanation of the case to its members? That's supposed to prove something? Then of course the fact that the school won its case is completely dismissed by lucky.
#13When people from his school correct him on his accounting errors (one time fee vs. a yearly fee) and say they think they are getting a good deal, lucky simply says they've been brain washed. It CAN'T be a good deal in lucky's world, because he needs more validation. It CAN'T be good for anyone, because that would mean that maybe lucky was the reason he didn't like it, and not what all the evil people did to him or something.
#14His idea of trash talk is someone saying that he didn't train a lot and didn't like taking hits. That's trash talk? Seriously, how much of a complete and blabbering vagina do you have to be that you can't handle someone saying you didn't train a lot? This is further proof that children shouldn't be allowed in MAs, but that's another post.
#15He wants "proof" that he's not correct. I used to see this with middle school kids all the time too. "Prove that you didn't lie about me!" "Prove that you didn't steal my video game!" "Prove that you don't hate me!"
#16His proof that EternalRage shouldn't have been posting OT is that from then on EternalRage listened to him. "And after I made my comments to him, he post ON TOPIC afterwards." That's proof that he's allowed to go overboard with someone posting OT? Validation, self-importance, proof of self-worth...
#17"I have not exaggerated either. I want justice..." Justice? Okay, okay. Thank you Walker Texas Ranger.
#18ďYouíre a fucking *****. You sucked. I can kick your ass. You are weak. You couldnít take it. Iím a real man. I can take it. Nu-uh. No way. Youíre a liar. You are full of ****!Ē Is that really how all students reacted? Oh, he could take the hits... even though previously he said that he didn't like his sifu hitting him. It was the "mental" anguish.
I'm sorry that this post is so short. You can only do so much psychological evaluation over the internet. Otherwise I'm sure this could have been much, much longer.
Dagon "still, NOT giving you a fucking hug" Akujin
2/25/2006 3:39pm, #124
Originally Posted by wagamichi
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
Good point. I'd hadn't really thought of it that way.
Originally Posted by wagamichi
lol wagamichi. omg im on the intarweb!
2/25/2006 3:44pm, #125Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
2/25/2006 3:59pm, #126
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- W. Yorks, UK
What's the big deal about the bhuda? Was it being grown in vast "evil maniac selling it to fund his bid for world domination" quantities, or was it just a few plants? If it's the latter, you should shut the **** up about it, you're 23 ffs, do you live in a fucking nunnery or something?
Not much comment on the other stuff, although this "kung fu family" deal is a little creepy if you ask me, you're better off out of it.
2/25/2006 9:05pm, #127
Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Miami Lakes Florida
- Kung Fu
How many years have you been training?
2/26/2006 2:08pm, #128
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- ving tsun
Gezz, I got on here to make a point or two but, nearly everything I was going to say has already been said by Dagon, and then some.
Who said I had something to hide? This is starting to seem like a failing attempt to poke holes in the operation of an organization that you disagree with. Be man and accept your "losses".
As far as the doc entitled VTTA, that is a set of bylaws Lyr_Ogludash (think I spelled it right) drafted. Copies were passed out with the stated purpose of making amendments as desired, to be discussed and voted on at a latter date. I made changes of my own; we have yet to complete it. The purpose of the bylaws was to create a set of standards for running the school, since you and I were some of the oldest, active personal students. You, know this, I shouldnít have to explain it to you again.
As far as treatment depending on memberships, the whole concept of becoming a personal student is that it is the decision to master the system, it is enrolling into the student instructor program. The school offers several programs of varying rates, basic self-defense, instructor program, tournament training, military combat tactics and others (no kids program that I know of).
$2500 in 15 months? I know Sifu wouldn't let you pay that much, and If you tried to pay him all that (considering the stage of your training at the time), your fucking stupid. From my recollection, you came in May '04 (that was when I first played hands with you), you left by May '05 (the last time I saw you at the school was at the VTTA meeting in March '05) but I'm just a bum and a pothead, right?
"But for what it is worth, I spotted the plants being grown in a different apartment than the one above the school. This was after we moved and Sigong moved also." - There's no connection so, STFU! .
The people you saw in a bar; "Those were my older kung fu brothers who I respected. They are 10 years older than me (Not in kung fu years, Iím talking about actual age.) I looked up to him. They represented a part of me for who I was in this organization and vice versa."
- You know I'm not one of these guys, but I have respect for their kung fu anyway.
Accusations can be made by whoever, however, wherever, they don't amount to anything without proof. There is no proof to show, just a list of complaints. :eusa_booh
It's funny the only potential, valid support you claim to have is somebody who knows somebody. In the last year or so, I've meet 10+ people in the Richmond area who trained at the Richmond school, every single one expressed sentiments of wanting to return to continue their training, but hey, thatís just what I've heard.
I'm flattered that you looked up to me, but really man.
Yeah I shouldn't waste my time trying to be a "bitch patrol"; I guess he's just a "dissatisfied costumer". I just can't stand people who make stuff up at other peoples expense, just to they can validate their own feelings, but that's not my problem.
P.S. A '95 Ford Mustang Cobra is a MUSCLE CAR, not a sports scar.
2/26/2006 8:43pm, #129
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- kung fu
My experience with the Moy Tung kung fu
I am a grand student of Moy Tung and have spent time with him both inside and outside of the school setting. I would like to just share some of my experiences in regard to his martial arts organization.
I have attended numerous seminars and workshops and all have included ALL DAY (usually twelve hours a day) workouts with and without sigung present.
My sifu has told me time and time again that all training is optional. If I want to attend a seminar or kung fu dinner, all students are welcome but in doing so take on the responsibility of paying the costs. $50 is a lot for a meal. I have never attended any kung fu related dinners that cost this much but for some people, it might be worth it to hang out with a kung fu grandmaster and spend this amount of money. For others, it may not be worth it, and thatís cool too.
We are constantly encouraged to question the purpose of our training techniques. Nothing should be taken for granted or taken as a truth because sifu or sigung say so. Sifu says itís our job to take what he says and test it- in our forms, in our drills, in chi sao or sparring.
My sifu (a student of Moy Tung) has always encouraged me and my kung fu brothers to spar with other martial artists.
Many of my kung fu brothers have trained and still do train other martial arts with our sifu and sigung's support.
Sifu always said the inner circle organization was a way for students to relax into their training. It gives them a sense that they don't need to rush their training; they are making a commitment to studying ving tsun. This seems more like a bigger commitment for the sifu, since sifu is making himself (or herself) available for training this student for years to come.
Sigung Moy Tung doesnít seem to be making it rich teaching kung fu. He does drive a nice car (10 year old Ford Mustang Cobra) that the school in Iowa City bought so that he could drive out to support the schoolís growth. At the time, the cost of plane tickets from LA were adding up.
When I moved away from my school, Sigung Moy Tung came to visit. I didnít have much money and he bought my wife and I dinner at a nice restaurant.
I have worked out with both Sifu Zeno and several of his students and I was very impressed with their abilities and their generosity.
For me, this kung fu organization has brought my martial arts skill to a level I didnít know possible. When I get frustrated with my sifu or sigung, I try to remember I go to them for martial arts instruction not for friendship or moral direction. I donít think any particular martial art is right for everyone, so I hope you find one that will inspire you.
2/26/2006 10:51pm, #130
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- ving tsun
It occurred to me today that lucky's main allegation is that Sifu Zeno is in some way a "McDojo", a term I'd never heard of before coming to this site. I'm not sure why it took me so long to see this. Maybe its because of all the BS mixed in his first post that is totally unrelated to his case. Or maybe it was my anger at the ridiculous accusations and trash talk that the first post was littered with. Or maybe it is because Lucky toned down the malicious content in his later posts. Whatever the reason is I now have a clearer view of the intention of his allegations, and it makes me Laugh so hard, my sides hurt.
Here is a little history of my experience with Sifu Zeno that most donít know; When I first came to the school I was seeking instruction in self defense because I was planning on entering the military. I didn't know when I might leave, so our agreement did not involve the variables of time, except that I would train under his instruction until I left. The principles of Ving Tsun made so much sense to me, I wish I had known about it before. My tuition was less back then than it is now. My training, in some ways, was very different back then than it is now. I received some advanced techniques and instruction at an early stage, and some of my classmates were lucky enough to catch some of it, and some of it them already knew what he was teaching, that was cool. Lucky for me, I'm a pretty fast learner, and often I would be able to stay later, and work out with some older people and explore some of the advanced stuff. There was no extra money, no red envelopes, nothing given extra for that either. Sifu was just teaching kung fu to those who need it. It's funny, Sifu would make the joke that is was kind of like poison, I think he meant that getting to much advanced kung fu when you're young can influence how you play your basics, and you might not play them right. (This is just my interpretation of his analogy). I was being taught this stuff with the aim that it may potentially save my life one day, if I had gone into the military. I'm sort of relieved they didn't let me in, being stuck in a war zone for years at a time, **** that! I probably donít need to post this, but... it is just one example of Sifu Zenoís generosity.
Anyway, I understand some of Lucky's frustration, at the time he enrolled it was little rough. We were both at very close stages in our kung fu. I'm sure any VT practioner can remember how frustrating it can be when you start chi sao, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, and you get hit and don't understand why. You're getting this "advanced kung fu", but don't see how it applies to fighting. I think some of that frustration may have influenced his opinion of how Sifu teaches and runs his part of the school. I had some frustrations of my own, but I've grown out of that stage and I've had a lot of break throughs in my kung fu lately. I hope that same will happen for lucky.
Lucky, itís funny that you say I don't understand the seriousness of the accusations. I really don't think you do. You have Posted libelous information and attempted to defame the character of several people by name. At the same time you do it from hiding, you don't show any face, and you haven't confronted the people that your complaints are about, man to man, face to face. Why do you hide your identity, it merely confirms that your story contains false information. You are behaving cowardly and I for one have lost a great deal of the respect I once had for you.
I hope you train hard, and are never forced to use your kung fu.