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  1. ashtad is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 2:34am


     Style: Hybrid, All Reality Based

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by frogninja View Post
    @Ashtad You are not being insulted, the MABS forum is devoted to FACT not vague speculation. The burden of evidence is on you. If you have something to say, by all means say it. However you must support everything that you say with evidence. Stop getting defensive and read the MABS forum rules before you post here. This is serious discussion, and serious investigation. Not a bunch of kids bitching about hurt feelings.
    did you even read my whole post? and i don't think i typed that my feelings were hurt anywhere. i may be a kid, but i live in a country that dishes out a hard life. i never just speculated anything and typed what i found out only based on evidence. i should have posted the whole email coversation here, but i made a mistake, to see the innocents getting robbed by hargrave's "certified instructors" is unbearingly painful. i really hope you are not a hargrave student just defending yourself and him, 'cause then it's just pointless to reply.
    Last edited by ashtad; 5/12/2011 2:41am at .
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 7:25am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ashtad View Post
    did you even read my whole post?
    Did you read the whole thread?


    and i don't think i typed that my feelings were hurt anywhere.
    You don't have to say it for it to be true. Your current reaction and appeal to authority means your feelings are hurt.

    i may be a kid, but i live in a country that dishes out a hard life.
    This is an appeal to authority. "I'm not kid because I had a hard life" is an assumption that no one else had a "hard life."

    i never just speculated anything
    Your entire first post is speculation. When asked to provide proof, your second post is full of speculation. Don't get angry and rant or make make accusations when you haven't provided any evidence that what you claim is true.

    and typed what i found out only based on evidence. i should have posted the whole email coversation here,
    Yes, and that is what you were told as it is one of the major and important RULES OF THIS SUBFORUM. People have been banned, which involves removal of all posting privileges, for making unsubstantiated claims.

    but i made a mistake, to see the innocents getting robbed by hargrave's "certified instructors" is unbearingly painful.
    If he did indeed rob these people it is bad. Again, you need to provide proof.

    i really hope you are not a hargrave student just defending yourself and him, 'cause then it's just pointless to reply.
    Read the thread instead if overreacting and burst posting. You are embarrassing yourself right now.
  3. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 11:24am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    here is my public response to that, don't insult a 19 year old, to protect a con man. and if you could take the trouble to read, maybe you'd see that i have done my research as much as i could
    You were not insulted; you were asked to provide proof. Proof is important around here. What you've posted so far isn't really research, its mostly emotional appeals and musings (also not an insult). If you've done your research, post some research.

    i'm sorry if i offended you by questioning CH. i have also said before in another thread, i'm not here to make enemies, or be rude to anyone, so i'm really sorry for offending you in anyway.
    You didn't offend anyone. This thread is all about Hargrave's questionable claims- we are not his supporters. The thing is, if you're gonna accuse him of something, you need proof. FYI the guy who first gave you this advice is a lawyer, and has seen/read more about fraud and martial arts together than any other lawyer I've heard of.

    Consider this: questionable martial artists often get away with teaching because even though they were discussed on Bullshido, people decided that Bullshido is just a bunch of jerks running an untrue smear campaign. The only way to combat this is to deal in facts. Real, supported facts.
    Last edited by Permalost; 5/12/2011 11:27am at .
  4. ashtad is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 12:18pm


     Style: Hybrid, All Reality Based

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i sincerely apologize for this, i will keep in mind next time to post the proof along with whatever post/s i make. i will try again to contact that instructor and this time i will post the entire email conversation here, again i'm really sorry. and thanks for not banning me.
    i really don't want want to bring down bullshido's name by doing something stupid like this. i promise this won't happen ever again.
    Last edited by ashtad; 5/12/2011 12:21pm at .
  5. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 12:28pm


     Style: Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by frogninja View Post
    He is a 10th degree in his "own style" of Kempo, lol. No listing of him ever studying in the Parker system anywhere.

    Hhhmmmm , well you *almost* got where I was pointing to , keep in mind that Parker's system is most assuredly not the only Kempo/ Kenpo system around , and of course he's not listed under the " Parker Tree" , even with the fracturing of the system and the incessant infighting after Parker died the folks in the system would tend to run Mr. Hargrave off.

    I would suggest a line of exploration that would have as it's focus some further research along those lines. Keep in mind you have a " Grandmaster" of a system *he* founded , who of course his " rank" from another " Grandmaster " of a 'system' of Kempo that individual "founded". Can you follow?

    I would suggest deeper exploration and discussion with some of the older Texas and Oklahoma crowd. Get your information and make *your* decision , however if you're going to bring an actual accusation to a public forum it would well behoove you to have your ducks in a row as far as *proof* of any improprieties that might be legally actionable *either way* , in other words you might want to protect yourself via that avenue just in case this came back on you via the civil litigation route.
  6. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 2:03pm


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Jazzman, I understand completely what you are saying. I think I was to vague in my posting. The only Kempo group that I have had access to was the Parker guys, specifically the "United Parker Federation", and the 10th degree comment is accurate as he says on several of his sites that he created "American Combat Kempo".

    We have a several "Kempo" schools in and around Tulsa and OKC, but only a couple of them have any real organizational relationships out side them selves.
  7. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 2:29pm


     Style: Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by frogninja View Post
    @Jazzman, I understand completely what you are saying. I think I was to vague in my posting. The only Kempo group that I have had access to was the Parker guys, specifically the "United Parker Federation", and the 10th degree comment is accurate as he says on several of his sites that he created "American Combat Kempo".

    We have a several "Kempo" schools in and around Tulsa and OKC, but only a couple of them have any real organizational relationships out side them selves.

    Your with me now , it's a rather unfortunate turn of events that it has finally come to the point where " Kempo-Kenpo" is just a word , I might suggest that if you really wish to pursue this line of inquiry you wish to speak to some folks that came through Parker , Castro or the old Tracy system along with the various Kosho-Shorei and Karaho folks and get their impressions. This might tend to shed light on some things.

    And in the last analysis only the specific student can make the individual decision , if they're happy where they are so be it , if they aren't so be it. If they train hard on their own they should derive some benefit if only from an exercise standpoint.
  8. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2011 2:48pm


     Style: Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=frogninja;2546802and the 10th degree comment is accurate as he says on several of his sites that he created "American Combat Kempo".

    .[/QUOTE]


    Reread what you stated within the above. Do you need more than that? As regards making an informed personal decision anyway.


    Apologies to all for having veered slightly off topic.
  9. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2011 12:24am

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kempo training verification is in the works.

    My understanding from Gary Dill is that Carter was 1st black belt before his departure and start-up of his own style. While he has certification from other sources (read known rank mills), actual training anywhere else is unknown.

    Question to those following this thread. What recommendations to show who/when/where for all of the certifications? My thinking is a flow chart would be easiest to follow as I've never seen so many affiliations/rank trading, most of which are questionable at best.

    Closing in on an article for the encyclopedia and would like to get this last question of format decided.
  10. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2011 12:25am


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Joe, I like the idea of the flowchart, that would probably be the easiest to follow.
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