Carter Hargrave

**Jazzman** · Posted On: 5/09/2011 9:46pm

Has anyone yet made the attempt to run down his rank in Kempo. I've never bothered before but he now seems to be rather creating a black eye for Kempo in general , makes one long for the old days prior to so much tendency towards excess litigation when a goodly portion of these sorts of socalled 'instructors' would eventually have someone real walk in the door and have a heart to heart chat with the gentleman.

I guess I shouldn't really be surprised that he and his carney barker schtick are still around , it's a shame though , can't teach ethics and ya can't fix stupid.

**frogninja** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 9:46pm

He is a 10th degree in his "own style" of Kempo, lol. No listing of him ever studying in the Parker system anywhere.

**Chili Pepper** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 10:00pm

Originally Posted by frogninja

He is a 10th degree in his "own style" of Kempo, lol. No listing of him ever studying in the Parker system anywhere.

Seriously? Like there's no kempo background that anybody has found?

**ashtad** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 10:16pm

all those names that are listed on his website showing that they are "certified instructors" under him, are they even real people, or is he just lying about them too, 'cause i don't think anyone would even consider becoming "certified" under him, and by just buying the certificate, i mean if you don't know anything what will you teach? i don't even know how someone telling this huge amount of lies can just keep on going like this, if those people really did buy his certificates, then he's just getting rich by lying cheating and stealing in broad day light and his lies are not stopping, i think he should be arrested for fraud on a massive international scale.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 5/11/2011 11:11pm

I think he studied Kempo with Dill. I don't know if he studied Kempo with anyone else after that relationship ended.

And Ashtad, why don't you do some research before you accuse him of making up those names on his site. It's your burden to establish that such names do not exist.

**frogninja** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 12:01am

Here is a list of Hargrave's "certifications". Hargrave states that he was promoted to first dan by Gary Dill in Bushido Kempo. He then went on to make up his own style and promote himself to 10th Dan.

http://realkarate.com/Carter_Hargrav..._Hargrave.html

On a side note, I am in contact with a current student of Hargrave's and am hopefully going to view some of his training manuals and videos soon.

**Colin** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 12:08am

Is there a legal problem with attaching the name "Jeet Kune Do" to the things he appears to claim to have invented himself then? He DID create his own style right? And if he's a 10th Dan in it, you might expect that content from Dans 2-10 must be created by him.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 12:13am

Originally Posted by Colin

Is there a legal problem with attaching the name "Jeet Kune Do" to the things he appears to claim to have invented himself then? He DID create his own style right? And if he's a 10th Dan in it, you might expect that content from Dans 2-10 must be created by him.

Because of how Bruce Lee (the actual founder) defined Jeet Kune Do in his books, it seems that anyone could technically call what they do Jeet Kune Do. I believe his own style is combat kempo. Kempo also happens to be roughly defined, so it could be tricky to get in trouble for using kempo too (especially combat kempo).

**ashtad** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 1:44am

Originally Posted by Sam Browning

And Ashtad, why don't you do some research before you accuse him of making up those names on his site. It's your burden to establish that such names do not exist.

actually i did, there are 3 instructors listed on his site that are from here, i contacted one of them and got response, i have posted a reply here before with what happened, the other 2, i didn't get a response from them, also many of his "certified instructor's" websites that are shown there, those websites aren't even up. the domain names are for sale, now from what results i got, i think that maybe many of those names are just made up, possibly one or two actually are "certified" by him, but i don't know about all of them, i mean come on everyone knows that CH is really good at hyping himself, i just questioned whether this was just one of his hyping methods. i'm sorry if i offended you by questioning CH. i have also said before in another thread, i'm not here to make enemies, or be rude to anyone, so i'm really sorry for offending you in anyway.
i just don't think it's right to just sell certificates and say that someone is a Jeet Kune Do instructor, master instructor certificate for 500$ ?? 500 for a piece of paper, no training, no skill, and suddenly just for 500$ someone becomes the master instructor in Jeet Kune Do, does he even know that the only true master instructor in JKD is SiJo Bruce Lee, how can he just put a skill less idiot who doesn't know jack about JKD on the same level as SiJo Bruce Lee, i don't think that even the highest practitioner of JKD Dan Inosanto or any other of Bruce Lee's students think/thought that ever. oh and also, when i asked the instructor that i contacted, about JKD, to test his knowledge, you know what he did? he actually sent me an email containing an attachment in word format, and in that document was the whole wikipedia article on JKD, he couldn't even describe JKD in his own words, do you really think that someone like that should be charging his students 5000 and 8000 rs/- plus testing fees for belts, JKD doesn't even have belt raning system and he is saying that he's "teaching the original JKD" ?? this guy also holds JKD tournaments? he doesn't even know that Bruce Lee called tournaments 'Dry Land Swimming'. JKD is not supposed to have boundaries like in tournaments. Instead of trying to insult me, i think you should look at the real problem that this thread was created for, i'm not the one who's looting people in broad day light while keeping them in the dark.
and about the harsh feedback you left on my profile, here is my public response to that, don't insult a 19 year old, to protect a con man. and if you could take the trouble to read, maybe you'd see that i have done my research as much as i could, i don't like to just blame anyone from the street and point and say they are bad or good, but this country, my country's economy is already in the sewers [just check the exchange rate and you'll know] and on top of that because of this guy, there are about three "instructors" here who are just misguiding students and robbing them of their money, giving them them nothing but false and half knowledge in return, and these "instructors" aren't in my city, so i couldn't do anything even if i wanted to, but there in the US there are many in OK that want CH to stop this, and no, i'm not asking everyone to just leave their lives and bring him down, so don't misunderstand me.

**frogninja** · Posted On: 5/12/2011 2:20am

@Ashtad You are not being insulted, the MABS forum is devoted to FACT not vague speculation. The burden of evidence is on you. If you have something to say, by all means say it. However you must support everything that you say with evidence. Stop getting defensive and read the MABS forum rules before you post here. This is serious discussion, and serious investigation. Not a bunch of kids bitching about hurt feelings.