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  1. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2011 5:34pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by frogninja View Post
    I am guessing that this is a standard form letter that Hargrave sends to his MANY detractors, and anyone who questions his God like credintials. This is the 3rd such letter that I have received, and have yet to see any type of subpoena or summons, but then again, it appears Hargrave is fishing for my name on the net.
    According to the previously posted Oklahoma court records involving Carter:

    List of Oklahoma Court Cases involving 'Hargrave'

    In the cases where he was a Plaintiff:

    Hargrave vs. Dill

    Hargrave vs. Cameron

    They were for a protective order. The other cases (where he is a defendant or party) are a mix of various issues.

    According to the records, Carter has never sued anybody regarding his perceived slights.
  2. hungryjoe is online now
    hungryjoe's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2011 5:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Long post, but a must read for further measure of the professor.

    Apologies, most of the below has found its way into this thread via the boy's 100+ self promoting websites. It's pasted here for posterity and future reference of a BS Encyclopedia article.

    Bold emphasis is my own. Note where he switches from third to first person. No doubt the result of so many cut/paste and his own inattention to detail.

    Taken from http://www.carterhargrave.org/page1/page1.html

    Carter Hargrave was an assistant instructor at the Oklahoma Karate Academy in Tulsa, Oklahoma , where he learned as well as taught Tae Kwon Do, and a form of Korean Ju Jitsu known as Kuk Sool. It was at the Oklahoma Karate Academy that a student of the Bruce Lee’s in California showed up to speak with the chief instructors of the School about him possibly teaching a Jeet Kune Do class. This chance meeting was an event that would forever change the fighting style for Hargrave, and more importantly the thousands upon thousands of his students that were to follow.

    Hargrave approached the visiting Jeet Kune Do instructor and expressed an interest in the teachings of Lee, and Hargrave thought that would most likely be the end of it. A few weeks later a parent of one of the Kuk Sool students that Hargrave was teaching invited him to his home to meet someone. That someone was the same Bruce Lee School teacher, and as it turned out requested he arrange another meeting with Hargrave. Immediately upon his arrival at the students home, the instructor of Bruce Lee’s art known as Jeet Kune Do or JKD for short, asked Hargrave “I hear you are pretty good at Tae Kwon Do and Kuk Sool, so lets see what you've got” meaning lets spar. As Hargrave kicked and punched and moved about he did not really notice that he was not coming even close to striking the instructor. of Bruce Lee’s art known as Jeet Kune Do.

    After a few minutes of this the JKD instructor said “Ok now are you ready to spar?” Hargrave remembers saying “I thought we were sparring” and the reply he received was “No, now we are sparring” as he threw Hargrave to the ground over and over without effort it seemed. He then asked Hargrave what he thought of the art he had been teaching for the last two years. “ I remember feeling at the time like I was completely unarmed, and felt a sinking sadness like I had wasted my time with my other training to be thrashed so easily”, said Hargrave. The Lee School instructor then asked if he would like to be trained in the new style to be one of his new instructors.

    Over the next two and a half years Carter Hargrave would train and teach in the several styles of martial arts at the same time, Jeet Kune Do, Kempo Karate, Ju Jitsu and Gung Fu (Kung Fu). It was a very hard time in his personal and professional life. Hargrave was a Mr. Mom during the days taking care of two wonderful daughters ,and at night doing his training and teaching at his private sanctioned studio under the Jeet Kune Do Association that was founded shortly after Hargrave began his training in the style.

    The hours were rough and the training was even more so. The creature comforts that most students know at commercial martial arts facilities were a distant memory. The training was grueling with no air conditioning in the summer usually working in the hot sun wearing the customary black combat attire, and the winters were well winter. The dojo / Kwoon had no windows and only a door for ventilation. One year after my training had begun we actually got a water cooler, so we could now drink semi cold water instead of the warm tap water. “The really fun part was that everyone was bigger than me so I had to pay constant attention or get my head handed to me, and sometimes you just got your head handed to you anyway.” “I am glad I went through the training though, it made me very hardened mentally in a way you dont find at most of todays schools. It was an instructor training school, not a student school.” “Regular students stayed for one class and they were gone.” “I could teach this hardened manor but I would go broke.” No one wants to put up with that much pain” “It was a joy fighting someone who outweighs you by one hundred pounds”, says Hargrave jokingly. “You gotta really want it bad”.

    After the years and years of training Hargrave’s belts started turning black. He now holds seven in all. Tae Kwon Do (meaning way of punching and kicking) First Dan Black, Goshin Jutsu (Traditional Self Defense) Third Dan Black, Ju Jitsu (Gentle Art) Eighth Dan Black, Kempo (Fist Law) Tenth Dan Black, Kung Fu (Skilled Man) Eight Degree Black Sash, Arnis (Stick and Knife Fighting) Guro.


    In 1992 Carter Hargrave founded the martial art style known as American Combat Kempo (Has also bee referred to as Combat Martial Arts in reference to the name of Hargrave’s first school). American Combat Kempo has been formally recognized as a system through numerous organizations worldwide, and many of its techniques were copied for US Marines training center program. Hargrave is known as Soke or founder of ACK and has the tile of Grandmaster. He is also Grandmaster in two other styles, Kung Fu and Ju Jitsu.

    In after resigning from the JKD Association for moral reasons in 1992, Hargrave formed the World Jeet Kune Do Federation to organize and disseminate the teachings of Bruce Lee and to help bring students and teachers together in cooperation and good will. Soon afterword he would then form the World Kempo Association to help further combat aspects of the art of American Combat Kempo worldwide.

    When it comes to Lee’s teachings, instructors and students there is a huge amount of political bickering and infighting that have paralyzed the style from becoming as popular as it should have been. The World Jeet Kune Do Federation was formed to be the only non political JKD association on the planet, and to this day remains the only non political organization many many years after its formation.

    How can you tell if a group is political? “Watch what they say and what they do. If they are constantly talking trash and bashing someone or allow bashing to take place, they are a very political and divisive association and you should run far far away. We are all about teaching and spreading knowledge, peace, and harmony.

    Granted its peace and harmony through superior fire power, but peace and harmony none the less.

    “I do feel very blessed being able to teach martial arts full time as my career. In the real world there are so few full time teachers. I dont know of any in Kempo that teach full time and in Jeet Kune Do I only know of two others.”

    Carter Hargrave is the father of two daughters, and has been married for nine years. He is a member of Asbury United Methodist Church and volunteers when needed to teach missionaries who travel to violent locations to help others.
    Now, the following are my opinion only, but come from a timeline provided by public records.

    Hargrave was a self-admitted Mr. Mom. Nothing wrong with that in of itself except he and his wife were struggling financially at this period.

    MORTGAGE CLEARING CORP,
    Plaintiff,

    v.

    HARGRAVE CARTER, HARGRAVE BARBARA H,
    Defendant.
    No. CJ-1989-2318
    (Civil relief more than $10,000:
    Case Filing: FORECLOSURE)


    Filed: 05/01/1989
    Closed: 06/26/1989

    Judge: Scott, Robert J.

    NCNB NATIONAL BANK VS HARGRAVE CARTER R No. CS-1991-3308
    (Civil relief less than $10,000:
    Case Filing: INDEBTEDNESS)


    Filed: 07/16/1991
    Closed: 11/19/1991

    Judge: Klein, Allen

    HARGRAVE v. HARGRAVE No. FD-1995-1924
    (Family and Domestic:
    Case Filing: DIVORCE)


    Filed: 05/11/1995
    Closed: 09/01/1995

    Judge: FD Docket E

    TULSA v. HARGRAVE No. SC-1995-11565
    (Small Claims:
    Case Filing: PROMISSORY NOTE)


    Filed: 08/04/1995
    Closed: 08/30/1995

    Judge: Mefford, Howard R.

    SECURITY v. HARGRAVE No. SC-1997-228
    (Small Claims:
    Case Filing: INDEBTEDNESS)


    Filed: 01/07/1997
    Closed: 01/31/1997

    Judge: Mefford, Howard R.

    GREAT WESTERN DIRECTORIES INC v. COMBAT No. SC-1998-1429
    (Small Claims:
    Case Filing: INDEBTEDNESS)


    Filed: 01/26/1998
    Closed: 02/24/1998

    Judge: Mefford, Howard R.

    SPECTRUM v. HARGRAVE No. SC-1997-1571
    (Small Claims:
    Case Filing: FORCIBLE ENTRY & DETAINER)


    Filed: 01/23/1997
    Closed: 01/31/1997

    Judge: Mefford, Howard R.

    v. HARGRAVE No. SC-1997-7334
    (Small Claims:
    Case Filing: INDEBTEDNESS)


    Filed: 04/30/1997
    Closed: 05/29/1997

    Judge: Mefford, Howard R.

    Apparently, again in my opinion, his former wife had had enough by 1995.

    HARGRAVE v. HARGRAVE No. FD-1995-1924
    (Family and Domestic:
    Case Filing: DIVORCE)


    Filed: 05/11/1995
    Closed: 09/01/1995

    Judge: FD Docket E
    This ^^^^^^^ is the man you are Carter. You're a coward.

    Afraid of hard work / honest effort, a real job and most of all, the truth. Live a life of lies and you'll be buried in those same lies.
  3. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2011 7:40pm


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The videos were taking from Youtube, however I did not copy, paste, or otherwise use his videos. I just made comments as to their effectiveness.
  4. Flappyhead is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2011 8:24pm


     Style: Watching from the stands

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by frogninja View Post
    The videos were taking from Youtube, however I did not copy, paste, or otherwise use his videos. I just made comments as to their effectiveness.
    That's the thing, you CAN copy and re-post any video he puts on Youtube. It's in the terms of service nobody bothers to read. You could break down each one point by point and post them as a response and there isn't a damn thing he can do about it outside of blocking you. Heck if you went that route not only would the terms of service be on your side but so would the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on(not that we didn't know that already) but I'm willing to bet he knows that and as usual is hoping an empty legal threat will scare you off.
  5. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 8:59pm


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is more from Carter Hargrave's never ending stream of bullshit.

    http://carterhargrave.realkarate.com...aud_Scams.html

    "Carter Hargrave is helping stamp out fraud in Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do by offering the public authentic teachings that were not available in many parts of the world until Hargrave's International group of over eight thousand members took Jeet Kune Do mainstream. "There were many so called JKD teachers claiming to teach the art that Bruce Lee founded, while having had no contact with any legitimate organization or even teacher of the original art" says Carter Hargrave President of World Jeet Kune Do. "Now you cant do an internet search without either myself or my Federation coming up on the top of the list for the past ten years in a row at least. We have stayed the number one Jeet Kune Do organization in the world by giving the students and the public the best learning experience and that means quality authentic instruction no matter where in the world you are."
    There is less fraud in Jeet Kune Do because of the tireless efforts of Carter Hargrave and World Jeet Kune Do Federation. The main area of the world where fraud is a problem is in Asia, and mainly India. It is a fast growing culture and when you are growing that fast there is bound to be problems. That is where the World Jeet Kune Do Federation comes in. On the Official Website of Jeet Kune Do www.worldjkd.com or www.jeetkunedo.org there is a school and instructor list that you can go to and find real teachers in your area. For those that have no teacher nearby you can order the distance training and ranking program that has taught more students Jeet Kune Do than any in martial arts history.
    Through the work of the Bruce Lee Estate along with Carter Hargrave and World Jeet Kune Do Federation we aim to make fraud a thing of the past.

    Carter Hargrave is also concerned with scams and fraud in Kempo Karate and MMA. He has a distance learning program that is offered for those who cannot find a legitimate school or teacher in their area."
  6. Colin is offline
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    LVL 99 Photomancer

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 9:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Flappyhead View Post
    That's the thing, you CAN copy and re-post any video he puts on Youtube. It's in the terms of service nobody bothers to read. You could break down each one point by point and post them as a response and there isn't a damn thing he can do about it outside of blocking you. Heck if you went that route not only would the terms of service be on your side but so would the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on(not that we didn't know that already) but I'm willing to bet he knows that and as usual is hoping an empty legal threat will scare you off.
    You're ALMOST right.
    If you read the TOS more carefully Section 6 Part C, you will see that common rights are dissolved once content is removed.

    Essentially, if you create a derivative repost - you need to remove it if the target of the argument ever removes their original.

    Note that this ONLY applies if your 'repost' breaks common usage laws. (this is a very rare situation, common usage laws usually apply, and protect all forms of journalistic satire).
  7. hungryjoe is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 9:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's my opinion that Carter Hargrave is posting that tripe due to Google search results.

    'carter hargrave fraud' search shows this thread as number one hit.

    Getting a line on Hargrave's early employment is a nigh impossible task. He's held one job that I know of but was terminated, allegedly, for falsifying reports in lieu of doing the real work. This is third person from someone who knew him well.
  8. hungryjoe is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 9:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Staff,

    Is there any chance of getting the thread title changed to ???Carter Hargrave???

    ?
  9. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2011 11:59pm


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    It's my opinion that Carter Hargrave is posting that tripe due to Google search results.

    'carter hargrave fraud' search shows this thread as number one hit.

    Getting a line on Hargrave's early employment is a nigh impossible task. He's held one job that I know of but was terminated, allegedly, for falsifying reports in lieu of doing the real work. This is third person from someone who knew him well.
    This is my thought exactly, he is exploiting the search engine, lol.
  10. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2011 2:10am


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Best selling author with no record of sales... Over 100,000 copies sold! Wait, doesn't one of his 118 websites say that he has sold over 500,000?!?!?!

    Watch the video to the end, VERY informative. He also claims to have, and I quote "hundreds of thousands of other trainees".
    Last edited by frogninja; 5/09/2011 2:14am at .
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