Carter Hargrave

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/27/2010 11:22am

I just got an email from freepressrelease that the article was removed.

**Iainkelt** · Posted On: 10/27/2010 12:19pm

Originally Posted by Eldritch

For some reason I thought that this was an actual newspaper article. The fact that it's just some stupid press release website creates problems with the "publication" element of a libel case, in my opinion. If he actually distributes or posts it somewhere, then that's a different story entirely.

Anyhow, sorry to derail the thread with talk of legal elements.

Not to derail this further, but no it really doesn't change anything. Just because this was released online, as opposed to an actual newspaper article, does not serve as any kind of barrier against a possible claim of defamation. Assuming that all the elements of a libel claim are present (generally speaking: a false statement of fact, unprivileged communication to a third party, some degree of negligence, and damage to the aggrieved party) then a claim could be proved. Defamation claims involving the internet have skyrocketed over the past ten years (I largely practice Intellectual Property/Info Tech//E-commerce law matters) and while some things have certainly changed, overall the basic legal elements are the same.

None of that is to say that Joe would want to pursue a case, or that he would have legal grounds to do so (impossible to say without having all the information), but people have a false sense of safety when it comes to posting rants online.

**Yoj** · Posted On: 10/27/2010 3:09pm

Originally Posted by Simio de las Rocas

Tenouchi = grip and arm movement.

I think I made that point already LOL.

If his hands were in the right place and holding the tsuka correctly, this would place his elbows in an entirely different position, what you see in the picture is a classic.. I haven't a clue baseball grip.

The 'wringing' action through the tsuka from the hands used to control the sword at it's end point (like wrining out a wet cloth) can only be effectively acheived with correct tenouchi.

Heh! I know, but that doesn't stop me posting!

Actually I did read it, but I was thinking more basic than that, in that grip you can barely swing it, and if you do manage to then after a few minutes you'd start abrading the skin against the tsuba.

Anyone who has waved a sword around for more than a few minutes realises it's daft to hold it like that.
That's even before you get into the mechanics of cutting, and achieving a proper form of some sort.

This isn't poor form from 'only' a few lessons, this is no clue whatsoever.

**Eldritch** · Posted On: 10/28/2010 11:52am

Originally Posted by Iainkelt

Not to derail this further, but no it really doesn't change anything. Just because this was released online, as opposed to an actual newspaper article, does not serve as any kind of barrier against a possible claim of defamation. Assuming that all the elements of a libel claim are present (generally speaking: a false statement of fact, unprivileged communication to a third party, some degree of negligence, and damage to the aggrieved party) then a claim could be proved. Defamation claims involving the internet have skyrocketed over the past ten years (I largely practice Intellectual Property/Info Tech//E-commerce law matters) and while some things have certainly changed, overall the basic legal elements are the same.

None of that is to say that Joe would want to pursue a case, or that he would have legal grounds to do so (impossible to say without having all the information), but people have a false sense of safety when it comes to posting rants online.

Interesting thoughts. My opinion was based on the theory that to show damages, he'd have to show that the publication actually reached an audience (instead of just existing in a void on this freepublication website). I freely admit that I do not practice e-commerce/IP (to any large extent...just keeping our marks secure), so I'll defer to your opinion.

I'd have PMed this, but lack the authority at this juncture.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/28/2010 12:35pm

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

Would it be any use reporting that article for being biased and possibly libellous?

It's pretty certain Hargrave wrote it himself, the contact email is from a domain he owns... although it's nice to see him use a spellchecker for once.

Chin up Joe, he's obviously on the ropes, or he wouldn't be lashing out like this.

I already did this and got it removed. Carter wrote a shitty article for a no-name publish anybody news org and it was flagged and removed in short order. It shouldn't affect Joe anymore and I hope Carter moves on too. Carter knows his black belt in beekeeping is fake, so I think he'll stop poking the beehive.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/15/2010 9:36pm

Seems way too much of this thread has been about myself.

Was waiting until I was in the vicinity to go see the Oklahoma City Police Department.

After filling out the paper work and providing the case number the "professor" provided, I was informed that there was no police report. The lady went to the back and returned a short while later.

It was explained to me this probably meant that there was a cover letter awaiting review, but no action had been taken.

In a nutshell, it was explained that the case probably was seen as not having any merit and the officers were more interested in catching online predators than placating some middle aged rank trader's angst at being outed.

(bold emphasis is my addition- not the clerk).

Having discussed the case with an attorney, it is his belief that should I want to purse this in court, I do have a libel case against Carter.

I'd just as soon not spend my hard earned dollars pursuing a case against the professor. I have a year from the time of his post to decide to press the matter.

While the original press release was taken down, there are numerous other sites to which the original was linked. I'd ask if anyone goes to these sites that they consider leaving a comment on my behalf. If my name is going to rise in the Google list under Carter's accusations, it may as well have reference to this thread.

Not interested in trying to wipe all reference from the web, but would like to see comments added on my behalf if anyone sees fit. Most of you don't know me, but there are those out there that do.

**Danufoo** · Posted On: 12/16/2010 5:44pm

Joe, I just sat and read this whole thread and props to you for not only baring a part of your past in order to remove the sting from this impotent douche's lame attempts to discredit you...but also for wasting your time (and chi:laughing5) dealing with his passive aggressive style. I'd think if I'd pissed off somebody with such extensive training they'd just kick my ass, particularly if we lived in the same town and he knew my name.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/16/2010 6:51pm

I tried putting in your and Carter's names into Google. There only seems to be one independent site where you can find his "article", and you've already posted a link to this thread. The rest seem to be on Carter's websites, which is a poor idea considering all his legal throwdown talk. You might want to record that he posted it on his own website, so he can't just take it down if it comes to a courtroom.

**Bill Mattucci** · Posted On: 1/07/2011 2:28pm

Hardgrave makes a mockery out of the martial arts especially JKD. I can see all of his awards but where is his fight record.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 1/23/2011 9:14am

Originally Posted by Bill Mattucci

Hardgrave makes a mockery out of the martial arts especially JKD. I can see all of his awards but where is his fight record.

Fight record? How about sparring videos?

You won't find any.

Why?

The man is in the business of war.

from

http://www.keeparticles.com/carter-h...war_a15678.htm

First if the art you are observing has any sporting aspects such as a tournament or a ring it cannot be considered as being a War Art. In War there is not a set of rules or guidelines that the practitioner must adhere to, so the tournaments of today would be out, as would any art that has tournaments. There is a word guide that a prospective War Art seeker can generally use in searching. When you see the word “Do” translated is “way of” on the end of an art that means that it is a watered down version of a parent art that was more real world effective. The only exception would be Bruce Lee’s art which is Jeet Kune Do which is most certainly a War Art.

Carter Hargrave teaches real world arts at Hargrave Martial Arts, such as Jeet Kune Do and is the founder of American Combat Kempo Karate a hard style system that has all heavily modified punches and strikes of Karate, throws and take downs of Ju Jitsu, and weapons training and disarms.