Thread: Carter Hargrave
7/23/2010 12:22am, #231
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Houston, TX
- BJJ, TKD
Point of clarification: A breach of contract claim would also likely fail due to the subjective nature of MA. In other words, the results are largely dependent on the effort and ability of the student (or that would be the argument). If you receive the materials that you paid for, you're probably out of luck. You'd be better off with abuse of process or malicious prosecution, if he ever got around to suing you.
For what it's worth.
8/07/2010 7:17am, #232
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
I usually just read and don't post, but a visit to this guy's website (RealKarate) makes me laugh. Right at the beginning he states, and I repost verbatim:
"11 yr old student severely bullied at school on a daily basis by larger stronger student. Student (yellow belt) after having his lunch tray dumped on the floor yet again, in front of entire grade (and principle) in lunch room struck bully in throat and took him to the floor. My student was suspended for a few days, but immediately after the school principle whispered "that was cool, where did you learn that"."
Really? He teaches 11 year olds to punch to the throat? If this had really happened, he'd have been sued into oblivion. Furthermore, if the school principle had said "that was cool..." to a student who had punched another student in the throat, HE'D have most likely lost his job and been sued also for condoning violence in the school system.
If, perhaps, this story is true and Mr. Hargrove is NOT guilty of a lie, it surely demonstrates a lack of judgement on his part.
What IS a definite lie, is his statement that his system is the basis for the Marine Corp. Combatives. Well, I'm a Security Forces Officer in the US Air Force. I've trained with Army and Marines in both their systems. The only name ever mentioned is Gracie.
THAT is the TRUTH.
9/08/2010 6:33pm, #233
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
I'm new to this web site, as you can probably tell... I'd like to give a non biased opinion of Carter Hargrave. To give you my opinion, however, I unfortunately have to tell you my story. I started martial arts at the age of 10 with the American TaeKwonDo Association. I trained with them until the age of 15. I reached 1st degree black belt and was nearly ready to test for 2nd degree. I couldn't test because I moved from Florida to Georgia. As I was getting older I realized though, the martial arts style I was doing was just a tournament style. This style was in no way effective in street defense. I then experimented with other styles of martial arts for 2 years, jujitsu, tae kwon jutsu, tang soo do etc. One day my brother met a guy named Rob at his place of employment, (pizzeria/bar.) Upon finding out Rob was a jeet kune do instructor he immediately let me know and gave me his card. As it happens, he was the head of a Jkd organization called the Jeet Kune Do Nation. He had a kungfu school in New Jersey (I never asked what part...) and upon other things was trying to spread jkd to the Atl (where there is a total lack of jkd.) After a year of accelerated training with Rob, I was sadly still his only student, for reasons I will not disclose. He had advanced me to mastery of basics, which to him was equivalent of black belt. I trained with hims 2 days a week and sometimes more then two hours at a time. To conclude this part of my story, I called one day to set up a lesson and he told me he went back to Jersey. I since then have lost contact with him. After Rob's departure, I tried to get into different styles wing chun being one of them... I easily figured out that once you go jkd there's really no turning back, atleast for me there isn't. I searched the internet and ofcourse found out about Carter Hargraves distance learning program... For me it was a dream come true. I promise I'm getting to my point. I bought Hargraves whole dvd set as well as his manual... Due to a busy life style at this time i've been working for 6 years on my ranking, I am now level 8 waiting to hear the results of my lvls 9 and 10 testing. (I get hlepful feed back on all my testing videos.) I found his dvd sets to be very easy to follow and very informative. I've been through the whole set several times. I feel he does justice to jkd. This comming from a guy with formal jkd training. I can't speak for the rest of his accomplishments, because all I care a bout is JKD. To me as well, his training manual is quite accurate. I have only seen very minor differences in what my former sifu was teaching compared to carter hargrave's video series. Now I teach 2 guys jkd just so they can be my training partners for no money what so ever. I'm looking for 1 more still. I may can only speak for his jeet kune do training, but as far as i'm concerned, I am happy with his services. I'm glad he's there.
Last edited by biajong; 9/08/2010 6:37pm at .
9/08/2010 6:58pm, #234
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
How much did you spend on his manual, dvd set and testing fees? Just curious.
Also who trained your JKD friend from New Jersey?
The only reason I am asking this is that there are a lot of fraudulant martial artists out there. There are tons of them surrounding the arts of JKD and ninjutsu. I have never seen so much fraud and mysticism surrounding these 2 arts as I have others except maybe types of "kung fu".
If you feel competant enough to fight in the street with what Hargrave is teaching you, hey.. whatever. I can tell you though that he and Gary Dill are two of the biggest jokes of the JKD community and almost if not completely full of ****. They belong to a self promoting organization called Soke and most of them endlessly promote themselves to Grandmaster in whatever bullshit style they decide to create.
Furthermore the guy has very few credible references to check. You never get to see him train and workout, save a few leaked videos on youtube which get removed immediately. You literally have to be gullible enough to sign away at the bottom line in order to see anything.
Just remember, JKD is an art based on precision and timing and sensitivity. It is almost impossible to get good at it by video and without instruction. I have a feeling you are being taken for a ride and do not realize it.
9/08/2010 7:02pm, #235
Please know that paragraphs are your friend. Your wall of text makes the eyes hurt.
If you don't mind, would you answer the questions below?
How much would you say you've paid to Carter over the years for "distance learning"?
How much in yearly fees to belong to his "association"?
Are you aware that his actual training in JKD can only be traced to him receiving 1st dan equivalency?
By "training manual", are you referring to the three ring binder?
Does he make you call him "Professor"?Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do
9/08/2010 10:52pm, #236
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
I think the levels 2 through 12 videos were somewhere in the area of $350 with a discount code I had in honor of Bruce Lee's Birthday. The manual (three ringed binder as you delicately put it) was 50$. Life time member ship was $75. From there testing 2 through 6 $45 a piece. 7 and 8 were$60 a piece I want to say.
No I was not aware his training was only to 1st dan equivalency, but as he say's its disrespectful to be a higher rank than the master. Bruce never had 2nd 3rd etc. black sash... In answer to xael, my former sifu was trained by vanderbilt, who i've seen featured on inside kungfu magazine. His instructor was a guy named jackson (don't know either of their first names)... Who was supposedly trained by Dan insanoto. That was the lineage he gave me(4th generation).
The small differences were Rob's pivots when you throw strikes. the lead hand throws a jab the lead leg pivot's. Hargraves is most from the hips and with a back leg pivot. He has a lot in his manual on chi sao but doesn't go deep into it on the video series. Rob and I were always practicing chi sao, doing contact flow exersises as well as something he called huba, which was seemingly techniques off of a bong sao. We worked on speed bag, double end bag as well as a heavy bag. I was also on a wooden dummy quite a lot. thoes are other things you don't get from video training. The guys I train now, we use the wooden dummy, the double end bag, speed bag and the mook jong. My reverence is to my former instructor, i've never seen anyone like him. His full name is Robert B. Fulford. I probably will never see anyone like him again though. You can try to look him up, you probably won't find him, I can't. Someone without formal training with the videos may have a harder time than I do. But as I said before, no one else is putting it out there like carter is as far as the price and flexability.
How did wjkdf get so big if his jkd wasn't credible. Like I said before, I don't know what his other styles are, frankly I don't care. I got enough resources on jkd to get it right. why put something on video to sell if its not credible. Was garry Dill not a student of James Yimm Lee? they say he is Bruce Lee's student, but I think he only trained a few times with him. Sorry I carried on so long. I understand there is a lot of fraudulent activity out there but, I feel if it works for me then I can't go wrong with it. I'm always also inviting mma guys and such to spar at what I call my kwoon. We have like 3 mma schools around me... (sorry about spacing, not used to this..)
Lastly, He does not make me call him professor...
9/08/2010 11:28pm, #237
Regardless of the endeavor, real teachers want their students to be better and eventually achieve equal rank.
Do we really need to point how fraudulent books, business practices and people exist?
Oh and you answered your own question:
How did wjkdf get so big if his jkd wasn't credible. Like I said before, I don't know what his other styles are, frankly I don't care. I got enough resources on jkd to get it right. why put something on video to sell if its not credible.I think the levels 2 through 12 videos were somewhere in the area of $350 with a discount code I had in honor of Bruce Lee's Birthday. The manual (three ringed binder as you delicately put it) was 50$. Life time member ship was $75. From there testing 2 through 6 $45 a piece. 7 and 8 were$60 a piece I want to say.
$45 * 5
$60 * 2
$820? You tell me. Trust me as I was an instructor, your initial cost for filming is the most expensive. Bulk copies, Bulk Tapes and now Bulk CDs are cheap.
Credibility? Gracie's, who have legit skills are doing an online University which waters down their own art. So, don't mix profit with credibility.
9/09/2010 2:14am, #238
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Bellingham, WA
- Muay Thai
biajong, I appreciate your input on this thread, as it sheds a little light onto CH's practices from the inside. However, I find it a little worrying that you would be teaching other students under the impression that ratings and testings done by video are indeed a fair and effective method of assessment or teaching for that matter. If I watch a Bruce Lee movie over and over, and memorize his patterns of movements and sequence of attacks, and then one of my friends who also loves Bruce Lee goes, "wow! you move just like him!", should I be able to then say that I am eligible to teach JKD for profit because I have trained under Bruce Lee, and I was certified as skilled and effective by a fellow student of Bruce Lee?
Now this investigation is not about you, its about Carter, and I'm obviously not recapping your exact case with the above sarcasm. However there is a parallel there, and I'm only pointing this out because you may soon find that in the future one of your students has become curious and simply google-fu'd your instructors, and now you find yourself lumped in with McDojos and fraudulent teachers who are in no way respected or even tolerated. So I applaud the fact that you came on here and gave your opinion on Carter'a system. You were toally honest and upfront. But realize that by taking someones money and teaching them a system you have (partially or by majority) learned by video, you are setting yourself up for some problems in the future. Even if you arent taking their money, teaching others a system that may arguably be fraudulent and ineffective is morally wrong.
So please continue to help us gather information on Carter Hargrave's practices, however also just keep this warning in the back of your head. Don't start down a path under the tutelage of Carter's system. If you are convinced of JKD's effectiveness, and you also feel that you have earned the ranks you hold, please seek out a well know governing body or teacher and have them assess your abilities and give you rank. Then no one will question the fact that you are legitimate in your skills and certified to teach your art.
9/09/2010 4:14pm, #239
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
I appreciate everyone's feed back... Carter Hargrave's sifu was infact Garry Dill... From what I hear Garry Dill also trained talent such as Tommy Carruthers... He's taken you tube by storm. (http://www.Tommycarruthers.com/tommy.php) This web site will confirm this.
Also why is Taky Kimura affiliated with Carter? ( www.worldjkd.com/inslist.htm) Why are any of these instructors affiliated with him? Are they all frauds?
How did Professor get on a list with all of these great people? (http://www.jkdworld.com) You'll see Danny Insanoto, James Lee, taky kimua, Muhamad Ali.. etc...
As far as my training partners go, they are like me... They cannot find a jkd school... They know my lineage already. One of them already had Carters training manual before I met him.
Miraclemty, I will take your advice and finish my training. I will then find a reputable instructor in jkd and be evaluated. I'd hate to be viewed as a fraud. Do you have any recommendations as to who would evaluate me honestly?
9/09/2010 4:48pm, #240
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- San Diego
- street paddleboarding
www.worldjkd.com, and the website posted is jkdworld.com. My guess is that Hargrave bought both domain names and used that one to list himself among people like Dan Inosanto, Gene Lebell etc. This is speculation though.