Carter Hargrave

**jkdbuck76** · Posted On: 12/29/2009 9:45pm

Originally Posted by tyrrin

I get an email from this idiot Hargraves last night stating basically that if I said another word that he was coming after me, then went on to make a few statements about my social life that any idiot with a computer can look up on facebook and then made a statement about my 3 week old baby son, that I will take as a threat.

Tyrrin, you really really really need to print that email and go file a police report. If anything, at least there will be something "on record" of this guy making threats and if things escalate, you will have shown that he has a past of harassing you. Hopefully the cops will go investigate your complaint and give Hargraves a visit. A visit from the 5-0 should cool his dumb-jets.

p.s. congrats on the baby!

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 12/29/2009 10:17pm

Originally Posted by tyrrin

I know the fraud personally, he trained at my school before he ascended into God hood. Gary Dill is also a Fraud. Lol, he claims that his martial art was given him by the spirit of a dead Samurai. That is why I call him a fraud.

Okay.

1) Did Gary make this statement to you in person? Did he make this statement to a magazine? Or on a video tape. Proof please.

2) What is your claim of fraud on Carter's part? Simply turning out incompetent black belts (which appears to be your claim) is more evidence of poor training practices and skills, then "fraud". So please define how you are using this term in regards to Carter. Its your burden of proof.

**tyrrin** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 1:55am

Originally Posted by Ninja Claus

Okay.

1) Did Gary make this statement to you in person? Did he make this statement to a magazine? Or on a video tape. Proof please.

2) What is your claim of fraud on Carter's part? Simply turning out incompetent black belts (which appears to be your claim) is more evidence of poor training practices and skills, then "fraud". So please define how you are using this term in regards to Carter. Its your burden of proof.

Are you looking to get into a pissing contest? Because that is what it sounds like to me... Lets begin.

FACT: Hargraves claims to have FOUNDED the MMAP (Marine Martial Arts) program, when in FACT this is based off what has been taught to the special forces for a VERY long time. FRAUD. I WAS A MARINE BELIEVE ME THIS IS TRUTH(Before you give me the once/always marine speech, I defected to the Navy for a better job).

FACT: Hargraves claims to have to be 2ND GENERATION JKD, when the list of people who can claim this is VERY SMALL, Inosanto, Kimura, etc. FRAUD.

FACT: Hargraves claims that Taky Kimura is a founding member of his JKD association, FRAUD. I KNOW ANDY KIMURA, I met him while training under Terry Gibson, he SAYS THIS IS A LIE, so I call yet again FRAUD.

Do you want me to continue or is it easier for you to simply go to Hargraves website READ his resume and make an informed decision for your self? Its all there plane as day.

And about Dill, the story of the SAMURAI has been told to several people and for awhile was posted on his bio page before shame forced him to remove it.

Also his HALL OF FAME induction roflmao... We had 2 people claim to be a 10th and 9th degree in MY FATHERS art, with pedigree's SIGNED BY MY FATHER who claim to have FOUNDED my FATHERS art, when they never even achieved there black belt from him or anyone else for that matter. who are BOTH enducted into the SAME martial arts hall of fame... proof, http://whitelionmartialarts.com/ (their website) http://www.mararts.org/memberlist/hof/2005.htm Scroll down to Oklahoma and look there. AGAIN FRAUD!

Shall I continue? Because I can. The reason there is no one on top of this idiot is one, he is a VERY well known JOKE here in OKLAHOMA, second WHO HAS THE MONEY TO FILE SUIT. But guess what, I am starting the process.

**Cy Q. Faunce** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 2:01am

Originally Posted by tyrrin

Are you looking to get into a pissing contest? Because that is what it sounds like to me...

Back off now.

Ninja Claus is doing what he needs to do to keep our investigative standards up to par and our forum out of legal trouble. You need to respect that or leave.

**tyrrin** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 2:20am

Originally Posted by Io Saturnalia

Back off now.

Ninja Claus is doing what he needs to do to keep our investigative standards up to par and our forum out of legal trouble. You need to respect that or leave.

Then I apologize, but I don't gossip, I don't state a single word that is not FACT.

**Cy Q. Faunce** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 5:37am

Originally Posted by tyrrin

Then I apologize, but I don't gossip, I don't state a single word that is not FACT.

That's terrific. Now, if you want your words to carry weight, you need to supply verifiable evidence.

**adam76** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 6:19am

blimey this is going mad on here, apologies for asking about dvds in the wrong area, my bad, i understand, but hey, got some great advice here. thanks to all.
i have to say the carter hargrave dvds that i did get, they werent actually that bad, i have watch a ton of jkd on youtube etc, and the moves are correct, i enjoyed learning from them, im not complaining about them at all, but seeing all this on here has brought up further issues for me, so i shall be changing where i learn from now.

**tyrrin** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 11:07am

Originally Posted by Io Saturnalia

That's terrific. Now, if you want your words to carry weight, you need to supply verifiable evidence.

Seriously? I just gave you several examples of VERIFIABLE PROOF... Lol...

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 11:24am

A good place to start would be where, how long and under whom did Carter Hargrave study after separating from Gary Dill.

He left, if I remember correctly, as a shodan. 1 - 2 years later he's giving out rank.

He lists seven black belts but apparently has never left Tulsa for an extended period after Dill. This information is an area where the Tulsa people who know Hargrave could help in this investigation.

Sounds like he's cross ranking with other known "questionable lineage types" i,e. Larry Sanders.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 12/30/2009 1:51pm

Originally Posted by tyrrin

Are you looking to get into a pissing contest? Because that is what it sounds like to me... Lets begin.

Nope, we do insist people provide proof of their statements, lets demonstrate.

FACT: Hargraves claims to have FOUNDED the MMAP (Marine Martial Arts) program, when in FACT this is based off what has been taught to the special forces for a VERY long time. FRAUD. I WAS A MARINE BELIEVE ME THIS IS TRUTH(Before you give me the once/always marine speech, I defected to the Navy for a better job).

Okay, now please find a webpage or a witness or two, where Hargrave actually makes this claim. Why? Because we need proof that he actually made this claim.

FACT: Hargraves claims to have to be 2ND GENERATION JKD, when the list of people who can claim this is VERY SMALL, Inosanto, Kimura, etc. FRAUD.

Okay, we once again need proof where he made this claim. Then we need an explaination of the various generations in JKD to put this in context. What generations are the other James Lee students claiming in terms of their generations.

FACT: Hargraves claims that Taky Kimura is a founding member of his JKD association, FRAUD. I KNOW ANDY KIMURA, I met him while training under Terry Gibson, he SAYS THIS IS A LIE, so I call yet again FRAUD.

Once again please provide proof where Hargrave made this initial claim and then since you know Taky can you please get him to confirm this with a letter, or e-mail?

Do you want me to continue or is it easier for you to simply go to Hargraves website READ his resume and make an informed decision for your self? Its all there plane as day.

I want you to establish the building blocks to prove your case. This entails proving that the original statements exist.

And about Dill, the story of the SAMURAI has been told to several people and for awhile was posted on his bio page before shame forced him to remove it.

Who is several people? Unnamed sources carry little credibility. Ask them if they are willing to use their names or even to post here in the first person.

Also his HALL OF FAME induction roflmao... We had 2 people claim to be a 10th and 9th degree in MY FATHERS art, with pedigree's SIGNED BY MY FATHER who claim to have FOUNDED my FATHERS art, when they never even achieved there black belt from him or anyone else for that matter. who are BOTH enducted into the SAME martial arts hall of fame... proof, http://whitelionmartialarts.com/ (their website) http://www.mararts.org/memberlist/hof/2005.htm Scroll down to Oklahoma and look there. AGAIN FRAUD!

Shall I continue? Because I can. The reason there is no one on top of this idiot is one, he is a VERY well known JOKE here in OKLAHOMA, second WHO HAS THE MONEY TO FILE SUIT. But guess what, I am starting the process.