Carter Hargrave

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 11/25/2009 10:37pm

Originally Posted by swseibukan

I really don’t see this kid as being a fraud; I think he sincerely believes in what he’s doing, he’s more like the victim of a fraud than a perpetrator.

He turned up in Boulder in 04, 18 years old an ikyu after 2 ½ years of training with Hargrave and a teaching certificate for American Combat Kempo. Funny yes, fraudulent only by association. Got his shodan around April of 05 then according to his website got his sandan in 08, whilst attending school here, so I assume that he partook in the Hargrave distance learning classes. Frank is making a mint of this kid in rank and teaching certifications.

Early on I tried to get together with the kid when he was offering instruction on the CU campus in 05 but it went sideways and I pretty much dropped it.

The way I stumbled on him this time was when I was checking out another Bullshido thread on Boulder Koryukan - Sensei Thomas Erik Angerhofer, who seems like a pretty solid practitioner. Anyway I was checking out his site and I clicked on the location link and found a list of the various classes offered through the Boulder Dance Studio and about half way down I see Hargrave muggin for a photo.

OK

Guilt by association.

Understood.

2.5 years to ikyu and a teaching certificate. Shodan in 05 and sandan by 08?

A pattern to be sure.

Carter Hargrave - the legend lives on.

**Iainkelt** · Posted On: 11/30/2009 11:38am

Originally Posted by hungryjoe

Awesome find swseibukan!

A small sampling from the website:

Abbreviated training:

Hawaiian/Samoan:
· Lua (art of bone breaking or dislocating)
American:
· C.Q.C. (close quarters combat)
o Military styles (marine core, army, seals ect….)

He obviously learned from the master:

We have changed the structure of our dojo!
Now Donation Based and Invitation Only.

Your welcome to drop in for a free demo, but you will have to be invited back.
We are very selective of our students. You don’t need previous experience or to be in great shape, just a willingness to learn.

I'm no military expert by any stretch, but I don't think that is how you spell Marine Corps.

**jerry** · Posted On: 12/03/2009 7:16pm

My problem with this guy is there are hundreds of styles of kung fu and Filipino martial arts. He doesn't name any of them. Secondly, he lists Taky Kimura as a member of his organization. What's up with that?

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 12/15/2009 12:27am

I've always thought Joe was a great part of Bullshido. Now that I know more of his past, my respect has gone up.

Seriously, it's easy to **** up, we all know that. It's getting back up that's the hardest, and staying there.

**tyrrin** · Posted On: 12/26/2009 11:44pm

I am the new guy here, this is my first post but I have been reading this website for several months, and I must say I LOVE YOU GUYS! First let me introduce myself, I am a student of many martial arts master of none, I studied under the late Terry Gibson for 14 years as well as a few others here and there throughout my 27 year career as a martial artist, eventually becoming a CQB/MOUT instructor for the Navy. I am recently retired from the Military and have started teaching under the MMA banner in Oklahoma City. On to the meat of the post.

How it all started... I had a student of Hargraves enter my studio a few weeks ago, an apparent 4th degree black belt, I being one who loves diversity in the martial arts welcomed him whole heartedly and allowed him to train with several of my upper students, red and brown belts mostly. Well after several sessions of his boasting about his art, I began to watch his flow and became very suspicious as he had to be tutored repeatedly on many, many things that I consider basic knowledge of any low level martial artist, of ANY art. I had a couple conversations with this 4th Dan and my suspensions grew. I asked for credentials, training background, and about his instructor, who is apparently a grandmaster of like 47 arts, this Hargraves character.

So it came time for our Christmas Bash, a 5+ hour party, with several local schools invited all dedicated to kicking the holy living piss out of each other, in good fun of course.

Well this student who we will call "Sean", joined in the fun... Well I understand how easily one can gain rank in virtually any martial art today with little to no actual skill, through gross memorization and the like, but when, in full pads a 4th degree black belt gets the crap kicked out of him by students who have just recently attained gold or green belt one starts to wonder. Towards the end of his 3rd bout, sean began to get noticeably agitated that he was not able to parry even the most straight forward of punches from this green belt, he pissed and threw his gloves off and tackled this poor student. Well lucky my student was unharmed, lol, but it gets better. I dont consider myself a master of any art, more of a big kid with lots of toys; however I have been in the arts for 27 years, and I am no push over. I pulled Sean off my student and asked him not to politely what his problem was, and he was seething mad, told me to go **** myself and attacked me. I of course defended myself and mad a rather abrupt end to this childs tirade.

Long story short apparently this child went to this teacher of his, carter hargraves, and goes off about how I said this and that and that I was coming after him, blah blah blah. I get an email from this idiot Hargraves last night stating basically that if I said another word that he was coming after me, then went on to make a few statements about my social life that any idiot with a computer can look up on facebook and then made a statement about my 3 week old baby son, that I will take as a threat.

So now I am going to organize a campaign against this idiot, I am going to do some serious research and put a few adds in the tulsa herald. I am going after this guy with every legal tool at my disposal and see where it leads.

Thanks all for letting me rant, I will keep this forum updated as I go about this process.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/27/2009 9:01am

tyrrin,

Welcome to the site.

I would be very interested in meeting you.

Could you perhaps post a link to your school?

Since you're willing to spend the cash to post add in Tulsa, please consider ponying up the $20 for a supporting membership. This would give you instant ability to send and receive private messages.

**tyrrin** · Posted On: 12/27/2009 10:50am

Our School is in OKC (Edmond), our website is not yet functional but the address is here: www.whitelion.us. This morning I get more warning messages from this loser, stating that my emails to him are undeliverable, when we had a "nice" conversation going last night. I am really good at playing games with idiots. If you would like to talk to me directly shoot me a line to "tyrrin at hotmail dot com".

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/27/2009 11:19am

Originally Posted by tyrrin

Our School is in OKC (Edmond), our website is not yet functional but the address is here: www.whitelion.us. This morning I get more warning messages from this loser, stating that my emails to him are undeliverable, when we had a "nice" conversation going last night. I am really good at playing games with idiots. If you would like to talk to me directly shoot me a line to xxxxxxx.

Ok tyrrin,

I shot you an email. You may want to edit your post and remove your email address.

**tyrrin** · Posted On: 12/27/2009 5:55pm

Latest message from this loser: "We dont take kindly to cyber stalkers and hate speech. We can backup anything on our websites, and teach many entities."

So if you can back up your L33T Sk1llz Why don't you get on the forum and talk to us? We know you are reading this forum.