228854 Bullies, 4859 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 7 of 7
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Olorin is offline
    Olorin's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,055

    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 11:36pm

    supporting memberhall of fame
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Too Deadly Fighting Techniques in the 18th Century South

    Recently I came across an interesting article and decided to share it and get everyone’s opinion.

    The article was Elliott J. Gorn’s "Gouge and Bite, Pull Hair and Scratch:" The Social Significance of Fighting in the Southern Backcountry.” It was published in The American Historical Review Vol. 90, No. 1 (February 1985) pages 18-43.

    In short, the article documents what we would consider “too deadly” fighting techniques that included biting, eye gouging, and groin attacks.

    In my opinion, some of what the author documented probably took place. However, I think that Elliott J. Gorn put to much faith in the recollections of travelers in the southern backcountry. It was common for locals to tell “tall tails” to visitors/outsiders and they might have exaggerated how widespread such fights were as well as their violence and ferocity.

    Here is a copy of the article; I believe it is a complete version.

    http://ejmas.com/jmanly/articles/200..._gorn_0401.htm

    Here is the original citation if anyone wants to look it up.

    Gorn, Elliott J. "Gouge and Bite, Pull Hair and Scratch: The Social Significance of Fighting in the Southern Backcountry.” American Historical Review Vol. 90, No. 1 (February 1985): 18-43.

    So what do you think? Is this an example of “too deadly fighting techniques” in action or has Elliot Gorn taken too literally “tall tails” told by locals to travelers?
    Last edited by Olorin; 2/18/2006 11:43pm at .
  2. jason_couch is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12

    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 9:28am


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's reasonably well-documented, including legislation outlawing the practices, which is a pretty telling point- you don't normally have something banned by the legislature if it's just rumors in foreign-published travel accounts. From what I remember, even the travelers' accounts tended to be firsthand, but it's been awhile since I read the article. I've also seen 19th century newspaper accounts that are consistent.

    While the prevalence of missing eyes and the like may be up for debate, I don't think there's any real question that that style of fighting took place.

    Just for full disclosure, I've communicated with Gorn and found him to be a pretty nice guy, so maybe that colors my judgment. I had heard a rumor of the article and he told me where it had been published before EJMAS picked it up. That said, although Gorn has an interest in combat sport, he's not a martial artist to the best of my knowledge, so the "too deadly" (which I don't really recall anyway) might just be unfortunate wording. Too vicious maybe, but the whole point was that you saw survivors walking around with eyeballs out, noses missing, lips torn, and missing genitals, so I don't know that I agree with "too deadly."
  3. Olorin is offline
    Olorin's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,055

    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 2:56pm

    supporting memberhall of fame
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The reference “too deadly” was not said by Gorn but is a term that is used on Bullshido when we get into debates between Sport Fighters and people who practice a martial art for the street and not for the mat. Therefore, it is not Gorn’s term…sorry if I gave the impression that he used it. However, you are right in that the article is well documented, peer reviewed, and written by a professional historian.
  4. Dao Jones is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    11

    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 6:56pm


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ, Kuntao

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds like Saturday night at the Front Porch in Troy Alabama.
  5. Coyote is offline
    Coyote's Avatar

    Your RBSD Cannot Save You Now.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,190

    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spanish Rapier/Epee/Foil

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People don't just want blood, they want a good fight.
    Or is it the other way around?
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,472

    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 1:36am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That article is rad.

    Just . . . rad.

    I mean, an NHB deathmatch over calling a guy a Scotsman? That's *rad*.

    Perhaps even 'mondo.' I think I might go as a far as 'boss.'
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  7. Neildo is offline
    Neildo's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    6,045

    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 1:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    That article is rad.

    Just . . . rad.

    I mean, an NHB deathmatch over calling a guy a Scotsman? That's *rad*.

    Perhaps even 'mondo.' I think I might go as a far as 'boss.'
    WOW! Mondo?

    ****, maybe i should actually read this....

    edit: FRAT. I read part of the first paragraph.
    What i got out of it is, back in the day, americans fought real dirty.

    [sarcasm]No, Rly?[/sarcasm]
    Last edited by Neildo; 3/01/2006 1:51am at .
    :new_all_c

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.