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  1. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 1:55pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    To Gi or Not To Gi...

    Not to be confused with this threat-

    Difference between gi and no gi grappling?

    Some scheduling difficulties have prompted me to check out some other gyms/schools, and I happened upon a REALLY inexpensive BJJ class relatively nearby that doesn't conflict with my current training. The instructor was really laid back, and the price was right...so I decided to give it a whirl.

    Most of my training up until this point has been in No Gi BJJ, and so you can imagine my surprise when my new BJJ school freestyled in full gi. I felt like a complete fish out of water, and I've had to change the way I freestyle.

    One thing that really caught me off guard was the ease of collar chokes/control. Since my previous schools had an informal "Respect the Shirt" policy with No-Gi grappling, it never dawned on me to protect my collar. Sure, I always kept an eye on guillotine attempts and neck control, but the concept of repelling attempts at collar control really threw me off.

    After two weeks of Gi freestyle every class, I figured that I would ask you guys what you've noticed about the different approaches and nuances of each game as it pertains to you. I'd also like to know which you prefer and why.
  2. MuKen is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:04pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just because you link the other thread and disclaim that this is different doesn't make it different.
  3. Kengou is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:07pm


     Style: TKD; BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do mostly gi, but I've been to a few no-gi classes and I have to say I prefer no-gi. It's faster, it's more translatable to other situations (all no-gi moves work with gi, but not all gi moves work no-gi), and the emphasis is on the grappling skills, instead of on manipulating clothing in different ways. That's just me though, I have nothing against gi training either.

    The difference is definately the collar. The sleeves have corresponding holds in no-gi, but with the collar, there are specific chokes and sweeps that require a collar grip. Without it, as Satori mentioned, it's a different game.

    Another thing is the friction; it's easier to submit people in no-gi because they can't grab onto their clothes to defend, but it's also easier to lock in limbs and positions in gi because the friction (as well as the collar grips) makes it harder to power out of things.
  4. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:13pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Satori: The best advice I can probably give to you is to SLOW DOWN. Ratchet everything in slow, safe steps for awhile. The gi is there for you to grip too, take advantage.

    Maintain good posture and don't get sloppy. Instead of "fast and loose," it's helpful to play things "slow and tight," especially when starting out. It's kind of frustrating, but important nonetheless.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  5. Camus is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:20pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Only advice I can give (I'm a mediocre grappler and better at no-gi) is to make sure not to overcompensate/defend the gi chokes. Lots of guys (like me) will constantly grip the collars of guys who are less experienced with the gi (often better in no-gi, however), in the appearance of applying a choke, forcing the defence, which is usually pushing away/inserting arm, opening up for armlock and generally breaking down your base/putting you on the defensive, which, of course, you don't want.
  6. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:23pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Camus
    Only advice I can give (I'm a mediocre grappler and better at no-gi) is to make sure not to overcompensate/defend the gi chokes. Lots of guys (like me) will constantly grip the collars of guys who are less experienced with the gi (often better in no-gi, however), in the appearance of applying a choke, forcing the defence, which is usually pushing away/inserting arm, opening up for armlock and generally breaking down your base/putting you on the defensive, which, of course, you don't want.
    Yeah. It's seriously hard to choke someone from your guard if they've got good posture. Even if you get both hands in the collar. Not that I recommend letting your opponents do this.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  7. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:31pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When i first started I got into Gi because i could only train BJJ 3 times a week and two of those classes were gi classes.I didnt like it, but i wanted the extra rolling time.

    Now that i am better and i see all the fun cool things that can be done with the gi I actually like rolling in the gi. I dont think i like it quite as much as no-gi, but they're much more even in my mind now.

    I tend to get a lot more sweeps from guard when using the gi since i can get better control via the sleeves and the like.
  8. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:38pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Now that i am better and i see all the fun cool things that can be done with the gi I actually like rolling in the gi. I dont think i like it quite as much as no-gi, but they're much more even in my mind now.

    I tend to get a lot more sweeps from guard when using the gi since i can get better control via the sleeves and the like.
    I feel like gi training really has helped me become more methodical, relaxed, and to "think outside the box," as weird submissions are everywhere. Also, it teaches you to pay more attention to your neck.

    Anna: sweeps with the gi on are usually easier, but a lot will work for no-gi with minor modifications, obviously. Butterfly guard sweeps are generally my favorite for no-gi, assuming I can't get to x-guard.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:39pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MuKen
    Just because you link the other thread and disclaim that this is different doesn't make it different.
    I actually looked through that thread and didn't find what I wanted. Had I, I wouldn't have made a new thread.

    That thread basically asked, "I'm a new student trying to find a school. What is the difference between Gi and No Gi grappling?"

    I'm asking, "What are your experiences transitioning between Gi and No Gi? How have you had to modify your game? After experiencing both, which falls into your preferred method of grappling?"

    Less general, more personal question.

    Garbanzo Bean: Good advice. Funny you should mention that, because I encountered that "mind set" during my last class. Basically, because of frustrations at work, etc... I've been going to class every single day. During the first few classes I used the standard, "Burn out" No-Gi momentum that most newbs use...which meant that I could barely walk from muscle soreness. I still went to class, but basically said, "Alright, I'm too fucking sore to muscle anything, so I'm going to play 'Limp Grappling'."

    Not only was I able to think more through freestyle, but I wasn't dog-ass-dying tired at the end. Thanks for the advice.

    What are your experiences going from Gi to No-Gi?
  10. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2006 2:50pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    What are your experiences going from Gi to No-Gi?
    when I am actively training (as opposed to this week, where I am a gimp), I generally roll both ways at least twice a week, so I don't really have much of an issue with it.

    When I play no-gi, I generally play things kind of fast and loose. I'm not as deadset about holding onto position as I am with the gi on.

    With the gi, my top game is pretty methodical, and I don't like to give up mount unless it's to take s-mount or the back. No-gi, if I start to get bucked off, I'll transition back to side control, sometimes catching a mounted triangle in the process.

    Transitioning a lot in dominant positions tires the **** out of my opponents and doesn't really have much of a negative effect on me. It also has a negative mental effect on people "Sweet I'm getting this big fucker off me . . . aww crap he's in side control again."

    Also, when I'm playing no-gi, I can actually triangle somewhat effectively (short tree trunk legs), and can slap on RNCs with ease, submissions that evade me somewhat with the gi on.

    Edit: My bottom game is different as well, as I can actually use triangles from the guard. I'm a sweaty guy though, so my guard armbars suffer. Also, I can get guillotines from the guard.

    It's a tradeoff, as a lot of my favorite sweeps are not quite as good with the gi on. Also, my open guard varies with which one I am doing. If I have the gi on, currently I'll be playing De La Riva (as that is what I'm working on), but no-gi, I'll go butterfly.

    It's just stuff you have to figure out on your own. Just work on your control, keep an open mind, and stay relaxed. You'll be fine.
    Last edited by Cassius; 2/18/2006 2:59pm at .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
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