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  1. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 12:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It amuses me to no end that a ninja is making fun of wing chun and its video pool.
  2. Plasma is online now
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 1:01pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    It amuses me to no end that a ninja is making fun of wing chun and its video pool.
    I know its that bad.

    But seriously, I spend much more time training in Japanese Jujutsu then Ninpo. I am also looking to starting training again at my old BJJ school. So I am more Jujutsu fighter then a Ninpo fighter.
  3. Dagon Akujin is offline
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    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 1:46pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shawarma, that was pretty funny. :5flowerfa

    Quote Originally Posted by Liu Bei
    P.S.: What exactly is "Ving Tsun"? It's neither a mandarin or cantonese romanization (they are "Yong Chuen" and "Wing Chun" respectively), so it's not chinese. Can anyone clarify why the term is spelled this way?

    P.P.S.: Dagon Akujin, can you please tell me about your style of Wing Chun? Because it seems very different from the system that I have learned.
    VT started being used by Ip Man. It is a cantonese romanization as far as I know (there are different romanization systems). Apparently, WC sometimes stands for "wash closet", and Ip Man wanted to be nice to the Brits in Hong Kong or something like that, since "V" also stood for Queen Victoria. It's something like that, but I'm not exactly sure of it.

    My lineage goes from Ip Man to Moy Yat, then to my current family head Moy Tung. Moy Yat, as far as I know, was the first practitioner to start taking western students when he moved to New York in the 70's.

    What parts seem different though? The school I am at doesn't mind telling you that you are going to get hit, and that you need to learn how to take a couple of hits too. We practice getting in the way of attacks though, not stopping them, so that our attacks can be more effective. If someone is using a hook, for instance, and you use a bong sau, you are probably going to get hit in the face. But, it won't be as bad, and you'll now have an opening to punch your attacker in the throat or chin. We even have worked this in class before, showing how our "blocks" were only serving to minimize things. "Oh, you're eye is getting hit! Get that shoulder up a little more... Oh, your eye is getting punched a little less!" We figure that to be a good enough trade-off. One of my personnal criticisms of many MA schools is that they don't teach you how to take a hit, or what to do when you're hit. What if things don't go as planned? I figure my school is helping me deal with that.

    Dagon "mullet finger" Akujin :sex:
  4. Liu Bei is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 2:28pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    VT started being used by Ip Man. It is a cantonese romanization as far as I know (there are different romanization systems). Apparently, WC sometimes stands for "wash closet", and Ip Man wanted to be nice to the Brits in Hong Kong or something like that, since "V" also stood for Queen Victoria. It's something like that, but I'm not exactly sure of it.
    Oh, I see. Well, nonetheless, I'll just stick to the WC name.

    What parts seem different though? The school I am at doesn't mind telling you that you are going to get hit, and that you need to learn how to take a couple of hits too. We practice getting in the way of attacks though, not stopping them, so that our attacks can be more effective. If someone is using a hook, for instance, and you use a bong sau, you are probably going to get hit in the face. But, it won't be as bad, and you'll now have an opening to punch your attacker in the throat or chin. We even have worked this in class before, showing how our "blocks" were only serving to minimize things. "Oh, you're eye is getting hit! Get that shoulder up a little more... Oh, your eye is getting punched a little less!" We figure that to be a good enough trade-off. One of my personnal criticisms of many MA schools is that they don't teach you how to take a hit, or what to do when you're hit. What if things don't go as planned? I figure my school is helping me deal with that.
    Well, you learned about deviation, right? Where the hand movements move in synch with the body by way of the hips, thus deviating the force away from you? That's the sort of thing I'm learning, where you channel the opponent's force away from you, and use it against him. We don't try to minimize, or try to block the attack - we cancel the incoming impact, by either sending it away, or channeling back at him. This is the internal aspect of the art, and it is akin to principles of Tai Chi (i.e., circular flow), though with different movements.

    As for precautions about taking a hit, we're taught to not let that happen, as we practice to perform our techniques cleanly and efficiently to prevent the opponent from hitting you. My sifu also teaches internal Qi Gong, which with the added benefit of being able to take hits, you get to live longer and healthier as well.

    I'd be glad to show you what I mean, in terms of the Wing Chun I study, but there's this fine line between demonstration and showing off that I don't want to cross, seeing as the internet crowd is very fickle.

    I'd still like to know if anyone is interested in seeing my school (seeing as people seem to want proof of the style working). Just ask me, and I'll give you the website. Any forum members living in Montreal, or anybody passing through the city, can feel free to visit.
  5. Liu Bei is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 2:50pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Dark Gltich> I would love to see a video clip of you sparring. Seriously all the Wing Chun video we have seen falls into 2 categories

    1. Dummy opponent that stands still while a Chunner punches really fast
    2. Bitch Slap fight with fists.
    Yes, some of the Wing Chun stuff I've seen is kind of odd. The people who did this stuff were probably trying to show off, or were too green to show the style properly.

    It's funny that people are asking for video evidence of certain fighting styles actually working. It seems Wing Chun is especially the case, as many (as I pointed out earlier) seem to boast this style the most. But why is it that I don't see people asking for videos of Ninjutsu? Or Hung Gar? Or White Crane? Or Kalaripayattu? Why don't we ask every martial art in the entire world to chip out videos to show their style is authentic?

    I'm not saying that Wing Chun should be exempt from having to do this as well, but if this is a prerequisite for a style to show its authenticity, shouldn't we impose this standard on all the other martial arts too?

    If you want to pour a cup of water, don't fill it one drop at a time.

    -Liu Bei
  6. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 3:02pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Liu Bei
    As for precautions about taking a hit, we're taught to not let that happen
    So what are you going to do in a real situation when you do get hit?

    Since your already in Montreal, why dont you wander over to an MT/BJJ club like GAMMA (linked) and spar with someone?

    Might I suggest finding someone who has as much BJJ/MT time as you have WC time. Say you have 5 years of WC, ask to spar with someone who also has 5 years in their art. Be respectfull and nice, just tell them you havent had a chance to work out with someone from a different art.

    That way you dont have to wait for someone to pass through Montreal. Though I am sure someone will someday, it just might not be soon.
  7. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 3:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Liu Bei
    It's funny that people are asking for video evidence of certain fighting styles actually working. It seems Wing Chun is especially the case, as many (as I pointed out earlier) seem to boast this style the most. But why is it that I don't see people asking for videos of Ninjutsu? Or Hung Gar? Or White Crane? Or Kalaripayattu? Why don't we ask every martial art in the entire world to chip out videos to show their style is authentic?

    I'm not saying that Wing Chun should be exempt from having to do this as well, but if this is a prerequisite for a style to show its authenticity, shouldn't we impose this standard on all the other martial arts too?
    Here on Bullshido that's the exact standard. If you can't show some solid video evidence that your style works, or make it to a throwdown and beat on someone well respected, it'll be generally assumed you're full of ****. This is the local variant of logical positivism.
    As for precautions about taking a hit, we're taught to not let that happen, as we practice to perform our techniques cleanly and efficiently to prevent the opponent from hitting you. My sifu also teaches internal Qi Gong, which with the added benefit of being able to take hits, you get to live longer and healthier as well.
    If by this you mean you've never taking a hit in training, what makes you think you'll be able to take one in reality?
  8. Firebrand is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 3:21pm


     Style: BJJ, Sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Liu Bei posted.
    It's funny that people are asking for video evidence of certain fighting styles actually working. It seems Wing Chun is especially the case, as many (as I pointed out earlier) seem to boast this style the most. But why is it that I don't see people asking for videos of Ninjutsu? Or Hung Gar? Or White Crane? Or Kalaripayattu? Why don't we ask every martial art in the entire world to chip out videos to show their style is authentic?
    Well, there are nutriders and trolls and there is everyone else. Nutriders and trolls just like beating on WC to make themselves feel better since it seems to be a favorite target around here. Then there's everyone else.

    For everyone else, we want good video evidence because there is so much bad video evidence out there. WC guys did not do very well in the early NHB events. Of course, most striking arts didn't do too well in those early events. Worst of all though was the William Emin fight.

    A lot of Kung Fu styles were originally trolled on as well. But many of these have since then stepped up. For instance, JFS made a good showing of what Hung Gar and SPM can do in the many Maryland showdowns before being called for some questionable grappling marketing. There are others as well.
    Last edited by Firebrand; 2/19/2006 3:26pm at .
  9. Plasma is online now
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 3:23pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Liu Bei
    Yes, some of the Wing Chun stuff I've seen is kind of odd. The people who did this stuff were probably trying to show off, or were too green to show the style properly.

    It's funny that people are asking for video evidence of certain fighting styles actually working. It seems Wing Chun is especially the case, as many (as I pointed out earlier) seem to boast this style the most. But why is it that I don't see people asking for videos of Ninjutsu? Or Hung Gar? Or White Crane? Or Kalaripayattu? Why don't we ask every martial art in the entire world to chip out videos to show their style is authentic?

    I'm not saying that Wing Chun should be exempt from having to do this as well, but if this is a prerequisite for a style to show its authenticity, shouldn't we impose this standard on all the other martial arts too?

    If you want to pour a cup of water, don't fill it one drop at a time.

    -Liu Bei

    Mainly because Wing Chun has so many horrible video out there. The other don't.

    Anyway most of us showed our style work through throwdowns. To my knowledge Wing Chun hasn't. We had 5 Maryland Throwdowns so far. We have videos of Japanese Jujutsu, NinpoTaijutsu, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Hung Gar, Southern Praying Mantis, Japanese Kenjutsu, and Korean Gumdo & Knife working. However, the 1 Wing Chun guys that showed up got fairly creamed.

    We are still looking for the r34l Wing Chun. I claim the "r34l Ninpo", do you have the r34l Wing Chun. You might.
  10. Liu Bei is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 3:27pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here on Bullshido that's the exact standard. If you can't show some solid video evidence that your style works, or make it to a throwdown and beat on someone well respected, it'll be generally assumed you're full of ****. This is the local variant of logical positivism.
    Oh I see. Well, thanks for clarifying that for me.

    If by this you mean you've never taking a hit in training, what makes you think you'll be able to take one in reality?
    Oh, we do get hit. Then we are told what we did wrong, and the various si-hings, or sifu himself, comes to correct you. Then you learn how to apply the technique correctly, so that you know what to do when a certain type of contact comes your way.

    Of course, like any style it is not a matter of making ticks off of a checklist and then you are perfect; it also depends on the person's instincts as well, and how he understands the art and its techniques.

    So what are you going to do in a real situation when you do get hit?
    Well, in many cases, especially in real life, if you get hit, you're dead. Just two seconds from recoiling from someone's blow, and your opponent can charge in and take advantage of your distraction (this is especially dangerous when he is surrounded by a posse). No one can be a tank; after all, we are all still human beings, not androids.

    From what I have learned, we are taught to deviate the incoming attack, rather than to resist it. It is a harder way to fight because it requires a lot of mental conditioning, but yes, that is how the fighting system works.

    I plan to learn Qi Gong from my sifu one day, but not so I can take hits - that's just the iciing on the cake; I want to learn it so I can have a long and healthy lifestyle. Personally, I'm not the type of person to get into fights all the time, or put myself in peril just to test my fighting skills. And I don't like to think that a small petite woman is unable to defend herself.

    However, the 1 Wing Chun guys that showed up got fairly creamed.
    He was just one guy. I wouldn't make assumptions about an entire fighting style just because of the bumblings of one person. That is just flawed reasoning.
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