What's your beef? (Wing Chun Thread)

[DeadlyVenom7]

Actually, I assume Wing Chun can't be used against boxing punches because every time I've seen anyone try it it's failed miserably on every conceivable level.

Possibly you have "the real _ing _un" that works against boxing punches, but frankly until I see it on video I'm going to assume you're full of it.

i spar with experienced boxers on occasion, and WC works just fine if you practice it enough(just like any other art). the problem is not the style(unless its "modified" WC, imho). a professional boxer, Prince Badi Ajamu, who is a light heavyweight title holder, ranked 8th in the world right now(to my knowledge), trains with my sifu and some of us WC guys, and he has added some WC training into his training program.

if anyone wants to call "Bullshido" on this, the school is located in Mount Laurel, NJ, and run by Sifu Keith Mazza. we have a very open door policy against anyone who wants to stop in. please do, we welcome all challenges.

its not the style, although we too say most WC sucks, and/or most of their practictioners suck. but i've been with my Sifu for several years, and many of us have been willing to back it up, and have done so, by sparring with martial artists of all types who are up for it. win, lose, or draw, its a learning experience, and if you can't use your style in a real situation, then of course there's a problem. so keep working it until it works or move on.

[Mr.Mundane]

Actually, I assume Wing Chun can't be used against boxing punches because every time I've seen anyone try it it's failed miserably on every conceivable level.

Possibly you have "the real _ing _un" that works against boxing punches, but frankly until I see it on video I'm going to assume you're full of it.

''Every time you've seen''? When did you exactly see it? Video evidence please. Have you sparred? Do you have actual boxing against Wing Chun Kuen experience? Or you're just talking out of your ass?

[nezha]

i spar with experienced boxers on occasion, and WC works just fine if you practice it enough(just like any other art). the problem is not the style(unless its "modified" WC, imho). a professional boxer, Prince Badi Ajamu, who is a light heavyweight title holder, ranked 8th in the world right now(to my knowledge), trains with my sifu and some of us WC guys, and he has added some WC training into his training program.

why is there never any videos of this

[Jettatore]

Duplicate Post, me and my browser apologize.

[Jettatore]

I can't believe that I've read through this thread, and many others like it on this forum and barely has anyone touched on the honest answer you've all been waiting to f'ing hear?

So for what it's worth I'll post my own experience with Wing Chun as compared to my training as a traditional boxer.

When I used to box actively, I trained every single day, for 2 to 4 hours per day, at the gym, with my trainer. Hitting the pads and working on speed combos, footwork, power and strategy, running up and down stairs, jump roping, strength training drills, constant sparring, weight lifting, you name it. It was serious training and serious exercise that would get any athelete into top physical shape. And I can easily say that it taught me how to handle myself and fight with confidence. Simple enough, now for Wing Chun.

Theres two main parts to the whole "trapping" elements of Wing Chun and they go in order. The second part, is the Chi Sao thing you guys all like to make fun of. The first, more important aspect, and unfortunately, least trained part is the process of "forming a bridge" with the opponent.

See in Wing Chun, your supposed to create a connection with the opponent, in a nutshell your supposed to be able to simultaniously shift out of the way of an incoming strike, block or bridge to that strike with a bong, pok or lop sao block as well as simultaniously counter-attack in one, single, fluid motion. Thats alot easier said than done. And that is the thing that you must master before you could possibly even begin to apply any of the Chi Sao patty cake stuff you guys see all of the time and guess what? Most Wing Chun classes, teachers and practitioners, including mine, do not realistically spar, making the first, most essential part of the artform near impossible to learn unless you go out on your own and practice, practice, practice in a realistic sparring environment. Only then could you possibly begin to apply the follow-up/trapping techniques of Chi-Sao to the art.

Chi Sao is like rock paper scissors, this simultanious shift/dodge+bock+strike movement counteracts this other simultanious shift+dodge+strike movement and so on and so on. Even when there is no longer a need for dodging as you are giving your opponent the better of it (if you get that far), Chi Sao allows you to continually reposition your body to effectively throw fresh attacks one after the other while simultaniously defending against any possible incoming strikes. And it works, but the whole *TRICK*, if there really is a trick to it all, is mastering the entire first part and I can guarantee you, that in and of itself takes years of practice to become even remotely effective in, and again, most Wing Chun schools do not spar, at all, so the idea that basic WC students could ever learn this all important skill is nearly impossible.

Conclusion... You can learn to the fundementals rather quickly, practice until you at least get the proper form down and then go out and diligently apply them in a controlled/realistic environment until things start flowing, at which point, and only at which point, the secondary Chi Sao training would actually become usefull. Or, conversely, and perhaps much more common. You could practice Chi Sao all of your life and never really know how to block a real punch that was coming at you at full speed that you didn't already have your arm artificially resting on in a training drill.

So yeah, thats Wing Chun. Love it or hate it. It can, and does work, but it takes alot of personal practice and realistic application to apply it effectively. And I can honestly say that I would likely have been able to take out the majority of students and some of the instructors in my class the day I first walked in, knowing only boxing. On the other hand, the small group of remaining students and instructors were solid and well rounded fighters and atheletes, who could apply Wing Chun properly in a fight, and I certaintly would not want to f-ck with them, period.

[DeadlyVenom7]

When I used to box actively, I trained every single day, for 2 to 4 hours per day, at the gym, with my trainer. Hitting the pads and working on speed combos, footwork, power and strategy, running up and down stairs, jump roping, strength training drills, constant sparring, weight lifting, you name it. It was serious training and serious exercise that would get any athelete into top physical shape. And I can easily say that it taught me how to handle myself and fight with confidence. Simple enough, now for Wing Chun.

Most Wing Chun classes, teachers and practitioners, including mine, do not realistically spar, making the first, most essential part of the artform near impossible to learn unless you go out on your own and practice, practice, practice in a realistic sparring environment. Only then could you possibly begin to apply the follow-up/trapping techniques of Chi-Sao to the art.

And it works, but the whole *TRICK*, if there really is a trick to it all, is mastering the entire first part and I can guarantee you, that in and of itself takes years of practice to become even remotely effective in, and again, most Wing Chun schools do not spar, at all, so the idea that basic WC students could ever learn this all important skill is nearly impossible.

Conclusion... You can learn to the fundementals rather quickly, practice until you at least get the proper form down and then go out and diligently apply them in a controlled/realistic environment until things start flowing, at which point, and only at which point, the secondary Chi Sao training would actually become usefull. Or, conversely, and perhaps much more common. You could practice Chi Sao all of your life and never really know how to block a real punch that was coming at you at full speed that you didn't already have your arm artificially resting on in a training drill.

So yeah, thats Wing Chun. Love it or hate it. It can, and does work, but it takes alot of personal practice and realistic application to apply it effectively. And I can honestly say that I would likely have been able to take out the majority of students and some of the instructors in my class the day I first walked in, knowing only boxing. On the other hand, the small group of remaining students and instructors were solid and well rounded fighters and atheletes, who could apply Wing Chun properly in a fight, and I certaintly would not want to f-ck with them, period.

well said! from what i've seen here, most people don't really understand WC, why it does or doesn't work. its not the art; the art itself is very efficient, but its the way people train. compare typical WC training to your boxing training or grappling training(its relatively safe and easy to wrestle every day with full effort), and its no wonder so many WC guys can't really fight. your post seemed pretty objective and put things in the proper perspective.