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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 7:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You don't know what the words you use mean.
  2. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 8:02pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    You don't know what the words you use mean.
    That's odd, because you don't seem to be able to tell me.

    I repeat; if 'submission grappling' i== 'BJJ' then I agree with the statement that "there was no 'submission grappling' in america (or, indeed, anywhere else) before BJJ", then I agree.

    If you're going to finesse the definition of something until I agree, then I agree.
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  3. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 8:13pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    That's odd, because you don't seem to be able to tell me.

    I repeat; if 'submission grappling' i== 'BJJ' then I agree with the statement that "there was no 'submission grappling' in america (or, indeed, anywhere else) before BJJ", then I agree.

    If you're going to finesse the definition of something until I agree, then I agree.
    I am trying to determine if that tiny bit of the original poster's comment was valid (i.e. did Whorian just not look at sub wrestling schools), because indeed everything I know of as submission wrestling either was derived from or came after bjj.

    Judo is not submission wrestling. Submission wrestling, which I'm now defining for the second time, is no-gi, focusing on submission and position with varying emphasis on throws. Not anything like judo. There are no restrictions on how long you work on the guard (barring stalling) like in judo. You can attack shoulders, knees and feet in submission wrestling.

    Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
  4. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 8:20pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    That thread does apply. As does the question about your being retarded.
    Catch for all intents and purposes doesn't exist in the US. AJJ didn't exist.

    So in regards to:
    4) He says that when he travelled to America he searched far and wide for a martial arts dojo that addressed the reality of ground-grappling. Did he visit any Judo dojos in that time? Submission wrestling? Sambo?

    Yes I am asking whether it existed or is just bjj? It clearly (to non-retards) isn't judo. Catch isn't/wasn't around. Your example (AJJ) wasn't around. Jacksons wasn't around. etc. etc.
    .....
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 8:22pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
    Because no-gi sub wrestling existed before the Gracies first arrived in the US ?
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  6. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 8:29pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Because no-gi sub wrestling existed before the Gracies first arrived in the US ?
    Yeah it was called WWF, now WWE.

    You should get your definitions correct before arguing your point. You are coming off as ignorant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  7. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 9:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know you're not fans of wikipedia around here, but this article suggests that catch wrestling was popular in the U.S. before Maeda even got to Brazil, let alone before Helio Gracie worked his magic.

    So, there was sub wrestling in the U.S. before BJJ was even developed. It's just that by the time Rorion got there it had turned into the laughable **** fest that is pro wrestling. Can we all kiss and make up now?
  8. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 9:04pm

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     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Share with your community pieces of BS that Rorian has said (or done). Off the top of my head;

    1) He sued for excusive rights to use the term "Gracie Jujitsu".

    2) That "triangle me"guard pass.

    The next few are things said on Gracie Jujitsu In Action:

    3) He states that Judo players are familiar with "basic" ground-grappling. Hello, where does BJJ originate from? I know that some Judoka might not spend much time on newaza, but I believe most have more than "basic" newaza skills.

    4) He says that when he travelled to America he searched far and wide for a martial arts dojo that addressed the reality of ground-grappling. Did he visit any Judo dojos in that time? Submission wrestling? Sambo?

    5) He refers to Kimura several times as a Jujitsu fighter, he's a Judo fighter.

    6) He never mentions that it was Judo that was taught to Carlos by Maeda, and instead calls it Jujitsu.

    7) He suggests on his webpage that all grappling styles come from Gracie Jujitsu.
    1. Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.

    2. Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.

    3. Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.

    4. Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.

    5.Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.

    6. Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.

    7. Who gives a ****, Rorion bashing is no longer relevant and went out in the mid ninties.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 9:07pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    Yeah it was called WWF, now WWE.

    You should get your definitions correct before arguing your point. You are coming off as ignorant.
    Sorry, to explain the definitions I was using:-

    Catch: A sub-wrestling style practiced in open competition for decades but with an image corrupted by carnies and choreographed US & UK pro-wrestling scenes which was carried on live in Japan and then brought back to the US by 'shooto' or 'pro-resu' practitioners.

    Judo: A gi-based grappling style featuring groundwork, but concentrating more on throws/takedowns than BJJ. The groundwork is more restricted in ruleset than BJJ competition as I understand it.

    Sambo: A jacket-grappling style which bans chokes.

    If we're only talking no-gi, then catch is the only one which counts, but it was certainly in the US first.

    P.S. Rorion is full of **** and his self-defence sucks. But hey, it's only marketing.
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  10. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2006 9:15pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Sorry, to explain the definitions I was using:-

    Catch: A sub-wrestling style practiced in open competition for decades but with an image corrupted by carnies and choreographed US & UK pro-wrestling scenes which was carried on live in Japan and then brought back to the US by 'shooto' or 'pro-resu' practitioners.

    Judo: A gi-based grappling style featuring groundwork, but concentrating more on throws/takedowns than BJJ. The groundwork is more restricted in ruleset than BJJ competition as I understand it.

    Sambo: A jacket-grappling style which bans chokes.

    If we're only talking no-gi, then catch is the only one which counts, but it was certainly in the US first.

    P.S. Rorion is full of **** and his self-defence sucks. But hey, it's only marketing.
    Good definitions. Catch went on to become WWF/WWE.

    Judo in the early 1900's was very close to what BJJ is.

    As for Rorion...

    1. Rorion is the father of the UFC in the United States.

    2. Rorion made his family art the premier grappling art in the world.

    3. Rorion, is one of the keenest business men I've ever met, one of the warmest when talking about business or when he was showing me a choke right.

    4. Rorion has ensured that Gracie Jiu Jitsu will never be a McDojo.

    5. Rorion has the admiration of the masses, as well as the hatred of idiots such as yourself.

    Now as for Cullion...

    1. He does Tai Chi. One of the most deadliest arts known to man. I read that somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
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