The Whoreian Gracie appeciation thread.

**Firebrand** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 5:17pm

At the risk of being banned, exactly who is covered under the Gracie Jujitsu copyright? Are all the Gracie schools (ie. Renzo, Rickson, etc) covered under the Gracie Jujitsu umbrella or only those associated with Rorian?

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 5:22pm

Originally Posted by Anthony

I't s called Marketing. If it were not for Rorion Gracie, your ass would still be in Ninja school.

Oh wait. You are.

I don't know much about Rorion, but if he's saying things that aren't true then 'marketing' is no excuse.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 5:33pm

Was there any active submission wrestling in america prior to bjj though?
All the tournaments I can think of came after the fact. And catch doesn't count because it is lame and doesn't exist in any real accesible form.

Ex. Jacksons Gaido whatever came out of Jacksons wrestling and some of his jujutsu, but it was well after bjj was on the scene and was certainly bjj influenced.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 5:57pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

Was there any active submission wrestling in america prior to bjj though?

Judo ?

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 6:20pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

Judo ?

While I haven't read the thread, this link seems appropriate.

I suppose I could have said: Judo is not submission wrestling. That's not as fun though.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 6:22pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

While I haven't read the thread, this link seems appropriate.

I suppose I could have said: Judo is not submission wrestling. That's not as fun though.

I suppose you could've asked whether or not Judo competition allows submissions or not. But that's asking too much.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 6:34pm

Why would I ask? I already know.
I'm passingly familiar with judo rules, more specifically the restrictions on newaza anyway.

Sub wrestling is no-gi, focusing on submission and position with varying emphasis on throws. Not anything like judo.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 6:38pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

Why would I ask? I already know.
I'm passingly familiar with judo rules, more specifically the restrictions on newaza anyway.

Sub wrestling is no-gi, focusing on submission and position with varying emphasis on throws. Not anything like judo.

Well if anything except BJJ (like Catch, AJJ etc..) don't count then you're right. If you define 'submission wrestling' to mean 'BJJ' then how could anybody disagree with the proposition that there was no BJJ prior to BJJ ?

Was that you're point ? that there was no BJJ prior to BJJ ?

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 6:46pm

That thread does apply. As does the question about your being retarded.
Catch for all intents and purposes doesn't exist in the US. AJJ didn't exist.

So in regards to:
4) He says that when he travelled to America he searched far and wide for a martial arts dojo that addressed the reality of ground-grappling. Did he visit any Judo dojos in that time? Submission wrestling? Sambo?

Yes I am asking whether it existed or is just bjj? It clearly (to non-retards) isn't judo. Catch isn't/wasn't around. Your example (AJJ) wasn't around. Jacksons wasn't around. etc. etc.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/17/2006 6:50pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

That thread does apply. As does the question about your being retarded.
Catch for all intents and purposes doesn't exist in the US. AJJ didn't exist.

So in regards to:
4) He says that when he travelled to America he searched far and wide for a martial arts dojo that addressed the reality of ground-grappling. Did he visit any Judo dojos in that time? Submission wrestling? Sambo?

Yes I am asking whether it existed or is just bjj? It clearly (to non-retards) isn't judo. Catch isn't/wasn't around. Your example (AJJ) wasn't around. Jacksons wasn't around. etc. etc.

Judo includes submission grappling, just not as effectively as BJJ because it doesn't devote as much time to them and the competition rules have been made more restrictive.