Ridiculous kung fu nationalism in Hong Kong films from the 60s and 70s

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:20pm

yeah I meant SanShou is relatively new in comparison to Muay Thai and other systems that compete more regularly in MMA events.

**Shawarma** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:20pm

While on the subject, how exactly do you tell Chinese and Japanese men apart just by looking at their nipples?

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:23pm

Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak

yeah I meant SanShou is relatively new in comparison to Muay Thai and other systems that compete more regularly in MMA events.

Look back over the San Shou/San Da history stuff regarding Lei Tai matches. They've been around for a looonngg time. It's just that the Chinese never seem to have picked up on the value of groundwork. I don't know why.

They've stuck with San Shou over MMA in the same way that America, the UK and some other countries still appear to value professional boxing over MMA (at least in the pay-packets of the fighters).

**Pen15** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:27pm

How pathetic. What do movie plots have to do with anything?? Gosh you guys are so pathetic that you just have to pick up every little thing to bash at every art?? How low self-esteem is that?

So Americans always win in US movies. American soldiers are always heros. So what?? Its a freakin movie you stupid ass mofos! Get a clue!

Most kung fu arts are not a fighting sport, so why comment on them as if they are one??

Mars to earth: Movies are movies.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:29pm

Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin

I tend to watch a lot of low budget Hong Kong kungfu films from the 60s and 70s which are released nowadays by companies like Saturn who probably bought the rights to the films for next to nothing.

One thing I noticed as a constant theme in these old martial arts films is how kung fu is automatically better than any Japanese martial arts. This is most pronounced in the films that are set in the 20th century, and which deal with the Japanese occupation of asia back in the 1930s up through World War II. An example of this would be "The China Connection" with Bruce Lee.

One thing I've noticed is a constant theme in Indiana Jones movies is Indy's ability to kick the asses of 5 Nazis per second, too. I don't think this is a detailed reflection on the relative merits of Nazi vs. Us Archaeologists' hand to hand skills. Nazis are bastards and its fun to kick their asses. Imperial Japanese occupiers are bastards and it's fun to kick their asses.

There even seem to be some cliches revolving around this sort of thing. Japanese martial arts instructors are fat and arrogant, and practically waddle as they attack. They start to lose and then they pull weapons. (Some weird interpretation or cultural impression of large judoka?)

Yeah, they're about as nuanced as Indiana Jones Nazis.

I've even seen one low-budget production with Bruce Li called "the real story of Bruce Lee" where a wing chun sporting Bruce Li with Bruce Lee mannerisms effortlessly demolishes an entire gym full of thai boxers and the fat muay thai coach is forced to say, "kung fu is better than muay thai!!!!"

Learn your context. Thailand was to the HK film industry what Canada is to the US industry: a place where you can film things cheaply with skilled perfomers for export. There are actually quite a few Muay Thai-using (named or not) bad guys in HK films. Sometimes they pretend to be kung-fuers, and sometimes they don't.

Keep in mind, too that more recent HK movies use Thailand and Thai martial arts on their own, too. Offhand, I can think of Ringo Lam and Chow Yun-Fat's Full Contact as one example of this.

But, you know the saying from Hamlet, "I think she doth protest too much". Realistically, in the context of the 20th century, I'm pretty sure that in general kyokushinkai players or judo players would probably trash most 20th century kungfu players. This goes back to emphasis on sparring rather than emphasis on forms.

There are probably at least as many Sanda and Lei Tei competitors as Kyokushin practitioners, and I've never seen people who focus on each compete against one another.

I can only wonder if this enormous emphasis I see on Japanese martial arts automatically losing is some kind of gigantic reaction to kungfu fighters losing a lot in reality, or something. I mean, especially vs. muay thai. Geeze.

As amazing as it is to believe, there are lots of Asians don't really care about martial arts and care even less about the intersection between nationalism and martial arts. The last PRChinese martial artist I've met practices JJJ and WTF taekwondo.

Propagandist movements (governmental and informal) are a bit different, and they do have an effect on Chinese cinema, even including HK cinema before unification (since cheap HK cinema back then came out of the pockets of crooks with rightwing Sino-supremacist sympathies), but that doesn;t have much to do with kung fu.

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:31pm

Originally Posted by Pen15

How pathetic. What do movie plots have to do with anything?? Gosh you guys are so pathetic that you just have to pick up every little thing to bash at every art?? How low self-esteem is that?

So Americans always win in US movies. American soldiers are always heros. So what?? Its a freakin movie you stupid ass mofos! Get a clue!

Most kung fu arts are not a fighting sport, so why comment on them as if they are one??

Mars to earth: Movies are movies.

Most Kung Fu arts aren't martial arts either. They're lying dance troupes.

We know movies are movies. We noticed some racism in these movies. So it pisses you off when we mention it? Ah poor you... why don't you disconnect the internet so our opinions don't cause you any more tears.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:36pm

Originally Posted by Pen15

How pathetic. What do movie plots have to do with anything?? Gosh you guys are so pathetic that you just have to pick up every little thing to bash at every art?? How low self-esteem is that?

So Americans always win in US movies. American soldiers are always heros. So what?? Its a freakin movie you stupid ass mofos! Get a clue!

Most kung fu arts are not a fighting sport, so why comment on them as if they are one??

Mars to earth: Movies are movies.

Earth to Mars: STFU

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:40pm

Cullion. Can you tell me the difference between Lei-Tai and Sanda?

I haven't heard of Lei-Tai outside of this board for some reason and you seem educated on this matter.

**Pen15** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 8:46pm

Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak

Most Kung Fu arts aren't martial arts either. They're lying dance troupes.

Now, just think, if that is true, and they are using it in a MOVIE (performance for visual affect), then what is there to complaint about?

If you are complainting about the movie being racist, then you need to get a clue. Do you think movie directors and producers are martial artist themselves?? You think a group of martial artist have monthly meetings and discuess which race they are going to insult in their next movie??

Just like any business, the motive is for PROFIT. After WW2 and invasion of 8 westen countries in to China (cconquering Hong Kong and other cities), if I am a business man, I'd think a movie beating up their enermy would be a good profit making idea. You think?

I think people would want to see Japanese get beaten up after WW2. You think?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ng&sa=N&tab=wi

WAIT! But thats racist!! Oh.....how sad.

Oh I know! The white man is not racist when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the made a movie about it??

Get.
A.
Fucking.
Clue.