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  1. emboesso is offline

    I suck Rudy Abel's Dick, I love the taste.

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 6:36am


     Style: Traditional TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by buu
    In your opinion what is a "qualified" teacher, and a "qualified" black belt?
    Yes, that is subjective. But imagine you're about to undergo open-heart surgery. While waiting in the doctor's office, the only diploma you see hanging on the wall is a high school equivalency diploma. Wouldn't it make you think?

    This guy makes no claims that can be disproven, so he is not Bullshido. But he also does not provide any credentials to show he is qualified to instruct martial arts. In fact, to the contrary, he ignored my query regarding his credentials.

    The only thing he appears to be proud of is his ability to get people enrolled in his school and make lots of money doing it. He also advertises to hire instructors with no martial arts experience necessary. Two powerful indicators of McDojoism.

    Umbrella organizations such as this Premier Martial Arts offer a cover of legitimacy to otherwise illegimate MA schools. Like "pay to play" Hall of Fames, they are little more than money making mutual masturbation societies.

    The sad thing is, some legitimate instructors let themsevles get dragged into these things, and subsequently their legitmacy comes into question by association.

    As for your statements about the Gracies, McDojos, and the purposes of martial arts studies, I suggest the bullies allow them to pass and not derail the thread, and you read more Bullshido.net for the answers to your questions.
      #41
  2. prob is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:00am


     Style: KARATE/KICK BOXING

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally if I had three succesfull schools in New York i would be pretty proud as well.
    Also i really never advertise my grades etc as when your advertising for new students it doesnt really matter to them (i dont mean matter at all.)
    If I recieved a random e mail from someone demanding to know what right i had to teach,replying to it probably wouldnt be top of my things to do (and i would probably forget)
    Also with regards to PMA as an organisation ,i see you have Trad Taekwondo as your style. This is probably why you have such strong views on the subject.
    As we all Know "Traditional " organisations have such high moral and ethical standards.
      #42
  3. emboesso is offline

    I suck Rudy Abel's Dick, I love the taste.

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:56am


     Style: Traditional TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK, let's take a few steps backwards:

    Quote Originally Posted by prob
    Personally if I had three succesfull schools in New York i would be pretty proud as well.
    Also i really never advertise my grades etc as when your advertising for new students it doesnt really matter to them (i dont mean matter at all.)
    Verifying legitimate credentials to instruct in martial arts is a large part of what this forum was formed for. If you don't believe that's an issue, perhaps you shouldn't bother to be here.

    If I recieved a random e mail from someone demanding to know what right i had to teach,replying to it probably wouldnt be top of my things to do (and i would probably forget)
    As I said, and you ignored, it was a very respectful request, not a demanding one. I even shared the e-mail with another bully here to see if my tone was appropriate, and it received his approval as well. Please don't put words in my mouth.

    Also with regards to PMA as an organisation ,i see you have Trad Taekwondo as your style. This is probably why you have such strong views on the subject.
    As we all Know "Traditional " organisations have such high moral and ethical standards.
    A large part of what's "traditional" about my TKD is that there is no organization involved. Just as the early kwans of Korean Karate had no central/political organization to answer to, neither does my TKD. Either what we do allows us to stand up as legitimate martial artists on our own merits, or it does not. Case closed. We do not feel a need to have an organization bestow their "legitimacy" upon us based upon how much cash we can pony up.
      #43
  4. buu is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 8:18pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No one has define what a "qualified" instructor is.

    Also the whole surgery example is extremely weak. There is no fromal governing bodies that ensure "quality" control on all martial arts studios or instructors.

    What makes a good intructor is subjective to the student. I don't think anyone here is qualified to judge what a good instructor or school is, when you can't define what you mean by "qualified".


    Let me expand on what I see hear on most of these forums. I see martial artists who couldn't hack it as a school owner. You are probably the best fighter or tournament competitor. Maybe you fought in the UFC, but you could'nt run a school to save your life. You look around and see people with a fraction of your talent making money hand over fist. And that pisses you off. So you make a frum label them McDojo's and comiserate with each other about how these schools water things down and how you are the only ones that train "real" martial arts.

    Instead what you ought to be doing is finding ought how to bring the quality of the martial arts up. Learn how to run a business, how to market, develop your teaching and people skills and contribute more than words.

    I understand how you feel. I was there myself. I didn't sell out. I am living my dream empowering others through the martial arts. I help others do the same thing. I run one the largest schools in the country and my students are good martial artists. I continue to help others bring up the quality of their instruction, and business systems what I don't do is tear them down and make fun of them. That only further seperated us. If you feel so strong about the quality of instruction. Please by all means teach us to do better.

    In summary- please define "qualified" and please tell us what your qualifications are to judge those that are "unqualified"

    Respectfully,

    J. Epps
      #44
  5. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:06pm


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obviously, I speak for no one but myself.

    The question of what makes a qualified instructor is simply answered. Proof of competency; in the style, using its techniques, applying its principles, and the ability to pass these things on to someone else.

    Determining competency, though, is not as simple. When someone says that they took training certification tests after less than a year of training, that throws a red flag. With the few exceptions existing to prove the rule, one year or even two is far too short to go from nonproficient to instructor without some serious martial background elsewhere.

    When the business model takes care of the management side of the dojo, all you need to make the business work is a) students, and b) instructors. The more students you have, the more instructors you need. The more instructors you have, the more (and possibly different) classes you can offer, thus appealing to a wider base of potential students.

    The problem emerges in that quality is not a necessary ingredient for success in this setup. Neither is training hard, or producing measurable results. These things might increase your reputation amongst the people who know what they are looking for, but if your goal is to make money above all else then you are better off targeting the layman anyway.

    To not stray too much further into the details, all of the above engenders a distrust of an internal certification program. When the time sounds right, it is not a big problem; I don't really think twice about it when someone says that they recieved their black belt in 4 or 5 years unless it is in a style with notoriously slow progression. When someone says that they recieved it in 2 years, or 18 months, or some other accelerated time frame, then they really have to have some other credentials before I'll buy it. An amatuer fight record, alot of tournament experience, even a demo that they consider representative of their abilities. I want to see proof that isn't provided by organization that is primarily concerned with profit.

    The programs can be legitimate, but they can just as easily be the martial version of a degree mill; without seeing some evidence that the instructor knows what they are doing, it's impossible to tell the difference between the two.
      #45
  6. emboesso is offline

    I suck Rudy Abel's Dick, I love the taste.

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 9:24am


     Style: Traditional TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by buu
    No one has define what a "qualified" instructor is.

    Also the whole surgery example is extremely weak. There is no fromal governing bodies that ensure "quality" control on all martial arts studios or instructors.

    What makes a good intructor is subjective to the student. I don't think anyone here is qualified to judge what a good instructor or school is, when you can't define what you mean by "qualified".
    And I said it is subjective. By asking the question again, you seem to be trying to deflect attention away from the fact that this specific instructor provides no (ZERO!) list of his qualifications, rankings, or achievements. Reading this forum I've read dozens of links to schools and have always seen instructors provide some type of qualifications. They're not always accurate, of course, but at least its a palce to start.

    And no, what makes a good instructor is not always subjective to the student. If the student does not go the school of an instructor with a laundry list of great qualifications and achievements, and instead goes to this Guerrero guy because Guerrero promises the student he can get a black belt in 18 months for instance, the student may think Guerrero is great but he's actually just a belt mill.

    This is as close of Guerrero gets to providing us with his qualifications, from his own website:

    http://www.newyorkcitykarate.us/staff.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanker TKD instructor
    Mario Guerrero, the owner of Manhattan Tae Kwon Do, came to the martial arts industry in a somewhat unusual fashion. He didn't come up as a SWAT or STORM member or as a junior instructor spearheading a school for his teacher. Nor did Guerrero enter the industry as a mature practitioner fulfilling a lifelong dream to teach the martial arts.

    Teaching martial arts as a livelihood wasn't even on Guerrero's radar screen almost up until the day he opened his doors.

    "I was walking around Manhattan as I often do, thinking, 'What can I do with my life?' I can be a financial guy and do tax returns or maybe I can teach martial arts. I've never done it before, but I stumbled upon a place here at 76th and Broadway. I thought, 'This would be perfect for a martial arts school.' There wasn't a school in this neighborhood to speak of," notes Guerrero. "The closest guy was a mile up and he's incredibly successful in a bad neighborhood.
    So I decided to give it a try. 'If it goes bust,' I thought to myself, 'I'll just start over and get myself another corporate job.'"
    With superb business skills, but no staff and having never taught a child, Mario Guerrero plunged into an industry that - at least in the short run - is notoriously inhospitable to new entrants.
    There ya go. From his own website, there are his credentials.


    Quote Originally Posted by buu
    Let me expand on what I see hear on most of these forums. I see martial artists who couldn't hack it as a school owner. You are probably the best fighter or tournament competitor. Maybe you fought in the UFC, but you could'nt run a school to save your life. You look around and see people with a fraction of your talent making money hand over fist. And that pisses you off. So you make a frum label them McDojo's and comiserate with each other about how these schools water things down and how you are the only ones that train "real" martial arts.

    Instead what you ought to be doing is finding ought how to bring the quality of the martial arts up. Learn how to run a business, how to market, develop your teaching and people skills and contribute more than words.
    We know how its done. We know the formula:

    *Do not teach the students any challenging material. They may get discouraged and quit. Then you lose money.

    *Lock your students into an iron-clad payment contract so they can't quit once they learn you're an unqualified instructor. Well, they can quit, but you still keep collecting their money.

    *Do not teach anything that might cause injury to the student. Injuries can usually allow them an "out" out of their contract. So no contact, no fighting, no running the risk of injury.

    *Keep testing and promoting your students. It's win-win. You collect money, and they're happy with their new belt.

    Etc. etc. etc. Yeah, I do hate guys like this. They suck the air out of the whole martial arts world. They collect tons of cash, and leave a whole market area full of
    disillusioned people who thought they were learning martial arts, but instead found out they were just buying belts. If someone legit does come along later, it becomes that much harder for the legit people to get off the ground.

    And keep your advice about marketing and business skills. The best martial artists I know personally don't even have their own schools. You can't compete with schools that have no scruples about just giving **** away.

    You might just as well go find a forum where you can tell teen aged girls how they can make big money just by using their pussies.
      #46
  7. prob is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 3:22pm


     Style: KARATE/KICK BOXING

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You still hav`nt given us your credentials which enable you to pass opinions on others
      #47
  8. emboesso is offline

    I suck Rudy Abel's Dick, I love the taste.

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 3:34pm


     Style: Traditional TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by prob
    You still hav`nt given us your credentials which enable you to pass opinions on others
    Why would my credentials even be an issue? I'm not running a school, collecting money from people, to teach them a skill. Guerrero is. Even if I'd never set foot into a class before, any boob on the street knows you need some type of qualifications to teach martials arts.

    You still haven't told us if it disturbs you at all that he is teaching martial arts to hundreds of people and does not even cite a single qualification to do so?

    Disturbing to say the least:
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      #48
  9. emboesso is offline

    I suck Rudy Abel's Dick, I love the taste.

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 3:39pm


     Style: Traditional TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Master himself. Your respected collegue in Premier Martial Arts:
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      #49
  10. prob is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 5:02pm


     Style: KARATE/KICK BOXING

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes they are kid black belts
    Yes they probably were forms comps

    But

    Have you been to his school?
    Have you trained with his students, Instructors or him?
    What experience of him or his school do you have other than his website ?.
    Have you been to any PMA school or trained with any PMA Instructors?

    Or are you a person with either a personal grudge aginst this man in particuler or some one who is generally embittered that anyone less dedicated/talented/Higher ranked /Traditional/whatever ,is percieved to be more succesfull than them.
      #50
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