The Armory is financially independent of PMA. Yes, they sponsor the fighters and fight team but certainly not to the extent that there would be an impact of any substantial financial effect should that sponsorship end.
Integrity is the primary filter that we run the MMA curriculum through. It is non negotiable. We purposefully aligned with PMA because they do give us carte blanche in the development of the program.
We understand that it will be a challenging road. There are alot of subject matter experts out there, but very few substance matter experts. You cant fake grappling, clinch work, throws, etc.... Sure there will be a paradigm shift that needs to occur in some the schools that have TMA programs. Hey, MMA or some aspects of it will not be for every school PMA has. It just may not be certain schools interests.
We are not looking for an excuse to blow PMA or school owners away and point fingers. I would also like to say that there are thousands more schools out there that are claiming they teach MMA that are NOT part of the PMA organization. What I do appreciate about PMA and their organization, is at least they are bringing a program and process in so as to help accelerate MMA programs in schools that have an interest.
I am not aware of any other organization of this size and scale that has attempted to introduce this type of curriculum. There is alot more of an organization to The Armory than just Hermes Franca and Kurt Pellegrino.
They are most definitely the MMA experts, currently running a successful school, outstanding MMA careers, great grappling and BJJ careers as well. Together, with businessmen who have successfully developed other ventures who love the MMA and combat sports world we are going to make this work as best we can.
We are not looking for a reason not to make this work. We are not critically tied financially to the outcome of this program. We will not fake it. Along the way we will have challenges, rogue school owners who are not qualified to teach MMA, fake claims of "experience" in MMA......but as I mentioned, this happens with alot ofl schools that are also non PMA types. We will do our best. We have the support of the PMA organization.
Last edited by armory; 4/13/2007 5:41pm at .
Points well taken Joe. Thanks for all your honest input :)
We are not critically tied financially to the outcome of this program. We will not fake it. Along the way we will have challenges, rogue school owners who are not qualified to teach MMA, fake claims of "experience" in MMA......but as I mentioned, this happens with alot ofl schools that are also non PMA types.
I hope you understand that all these inquiries are because we have all seen the other types of schools you mention. The ones claiming to be what they are not...many have had these feelings about PMA schools. It is because of the genuine respect for the Armory concerns were raised. In other words, the possibility of a legit group such as the Armory joining with what some consider a questionable group like PMA.
I truly hope your venture works and that PMA will live up to whatever standards you set in this program.
Thanks for answering the questions. Most people get offensive and just all our refuse to answer some simple questions. I'm glad you didn't turn out this way. My main concerns is that this partnership doesn't turn into something along the lines of what is going on in this thread:
It's a light read right now but I fear it may get bigger. Here are some example links in the thread that may interest you:
Pay close attention to the 4th one listed...MMA Forms???
Thanks to Wolf for the link.
Last edited by datdamnmachine; 4/14/2007 2:19pm at .
Good reads, thanks for the info. MMA, grappling, BJJ are all performance and evidence based combat sports. Its really one of the primary differentiating factors from the TMA programs. So we hope that will help :)
Well I'm not going to read 15 pages of this. But this is what I know of PMA. PMA is some marketing bs, that allows dojos to make more money by converting to PMA. Premier martial arts have their own forms, yes they don't due katas from karate or poomse from Tae Kwon Do. They have some crap called like focus form. I went to a dojang for about 4 years, and about 2 months before I left for college my master decided to join Premier Martial Arts. It pissed me off, although my monthly rates stayed the same and I never had to sign a contract. But for new students they have to sign up for at least like a 6 month contract I believe and pay 200 dollars to get enrolled to the program. PMA also creates certain clubs within the Dojang where you have to pay more money. My little brother decided to get back into Martial Arts and decided to go to where I went. He said it was complete crap. The contract was too high 200 dollars, and you have to buy PMA gear. I'm really pissed off at PMA its like ATA, in order to participate you have to buy certified PMA gear. Not to mention the horrible curriculum. Also they are always hiring instructors who have no experience but train them. PMA is pure bullshido I recomend everyone to stay away from PMA schools
I can only comment on the PMA-MMA program that we are developing with the PMA organization. Other programs within the schools I have little experiencve with. As mentioned, in regards to the proper introduction and devvelopment of the MMA curriculums, there will probably need to be a paradigm shift in the way some school owners currently operate their academy.
Well Joe ... good luck on that one . I have a feeling either you are just beganing to see how much of a problem this will be , or you are pretty out of touch with your average Martial Arts school .
Originally Posted by armory
I feel if you truly understood what I bolded ... you would be beating your head against a brick wall and contemplating mental health care and some vacation time . You should have a good health care plan and some other fool would have to try and talk sense into the school owners , so everyone doesn't look like jackasses . While you go skiing or something .
You are intending to stop a corporate McDojol chain from practicing crap . This MMA hype better not phase out .
Originally Posted by ghost55
“I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD
Your points are noted. Yep, going to be a griind. I am not here to change nor covert PMA schools, styles or businesses. I am here however to put a very well developed MMA program out there for potential pro's who are being developed and offer them an opportunity to step into the ring/cage where they may not have had that opportunity before.
In regards to the recreational MMA student, we will offer direction, content and credibility of Armory instructors and curriculum to school owners. Sure, some may misrepresent themselves as "MMA Instructors" when they really are not qualified to do so. I cant stop that. However, we re betting that we will make an impact to some schools, students and instructors that will have credibility and integrity and follow a plan that we suggest.
Its not The Armorys' styyle to sit on the sidelines and point at what wont work. It is our style to get in there and make something happen.
Again, we appreciate the good wishes and understand the cynicism. I have no visions f changing the PMA model as it stands today. We are here to impact the MMA content and provide a path for thos ewho aspire to become pro fighters, MMA instructors or straight up just enjoy the sport and want to learn more
Originally Posted by armory
There is a way you can provent that though. That way is making sure hat you do NOT provide any documentation that will allow them to say they are a "MMA Instructor". This would mean instructor certification and things of that nature. The problem that I see is that eventually, no matter how hard you try, PMA WILL come to you with the intent of providing said instructor certifications. At first, the standards will be high, but they will presure you into lowering the standards for higher instructor output.
I don't know if you are aware of this, but one of the ways PMA makes revenue is to train up instructors really fast and get them out there making money as soon as possible. The faster they are trained up, the sooner they can make a profit on said instructors. It's like manufacturing. The more you can produce within a given amount of time, the cheaper it is, the more you can make off of each item. I doubt that PMA is willing to wait the sheer amount of time it takes to train a quality fighter, let alone train someone how to be a quality MMA instructor.
One question I have is this. If someone goes through your MMA training program, maybe for a year. Then they go and open a school and/or start teaching MMA and they advertise that they went through the Armory program for a year, what would your reaction be? If I was a student and I saw this person and decided to give you a call about this person, what would you tell me about said individuals qualifications? Mind you, I am using a generic person who has never done any MMA in any way shape form or fashion, no boxing, no kickboxing, no BJJ, no wrestling, nothing. I'm using this as a control situation if I may.
It will be very difficult for a person to legitimately call themselves an MMA Instructor in 1 years time. Not going to happen. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I would really like to eliminate the "certification" mindset in regards to MMA training.
There is the possibility of someone gaining enough knowledge to teach a basic MMA program should they have a legit background in wrestling, high rank in BJJ or even competitive full contact kickboxing or boxing.
Please keep in mind that we will NOT be handing out so called rank in MMA in regards to instructors. We have been discussing offering services to PMA schools that would provide the following:
- Identify and interview potential instructors for both skills and the ability to teach the MMA curriculum.
- Ongoing support (weekly, monthly or quarterly) for those said instructors to come to The Armory Training Center to learn, teach and demonstrate their skills with our team.
- In addition to MMA training, there will be the opportunity to train and attain rank in BJJ thru Hermes Franca. This will also be very closely policed.
- Quarterly seminars to be held at schools that commit to this program.
This will be a program that perhaps not all PMA schools will have the committment to sign up for, but those that do will have a huge advantage in moving their MMA and BJJ program forward.
It is our suggestion with all the PMA schools to seek out an instructor who will first teach the program part time as it is assimilated into the school. As mentioned above, depending on the location of the school, we will be able to assist in identifying someone we know in that area and/or be involved in the vetting process of instructors.
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