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  1. Hidama is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 10:51am


     Style: Tenchu Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Prices & Practices: Bullshido? McDojo?

    There is always a lot of talk here about cost for training. Ok to begin with , I am not on a crusade against this school or anything, so I won't mention the name but I do have a serious question?

    What do you think of a school teaching BJJ that has rates of $99 = 2 classes week.

    $119 = 3 x week ; $149 = unlimited.

    They also teach Thai boxing but that is an additional fee, similar rates.

    Now once you join the school you are guided toward joining the equivalent of Black belt club at $249 per month and then the equivalent of Masters club at $349 per month. I have also heard from the owners own mouth that he is considering starting an Ultimate Masters Club.

    These are legitimate prices from the head instructors mouth.

    So would you say Bullshido? McDojo? Depends? Who cares?
  2. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:01am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidama
    There is always a lot of talk here about cost for training. Ok to begin with , I am not on a crusade against this school or anything, so I won't mention the name but I do have a serious question?

    What do you think of a school teaching BJJ that has rates of $99 = 2 classes week.

    $119 = 3 x week ; $149 = unlimited.

    They also teach Thai boxing but that is an additional fee, similar rates.

    Now once you join the school you are guided toward joining the equivalent of Black belt club at $249 per month and then the equivalent of Masters club at $349 per month. I have also heard from the owners own mouth that he is considering starting an Ultimate Masters Club.

    These are legitimate prices from the head instructors mouth.

    So would you say Bullshido? McDojo? Depends? Who cares?

    Where and what type/ how large/ how well equipped is the facility?

    What is the rank of the Chief instructor/ instructors?

    What extra benefits come with the more expensive packages (better instruction, competition prep, more mat time/visits)?

    Where is it (downtown, strip mall, YMCA) ?


    These factor all enter into the price, and weather or not you are being gouged.

    Some places cost a lot more to rent, heat, cool, maintain.

    Good well made equipment (weight room, good mats) cost serious money.

    Free standing buildings cost more than strip malls.


    There's no magic line where it becomes a McDojo.



    More info plz.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  3. Hidama is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:14am


     Style: Tenchu Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The monthly prices are in line with most other schools I believe.
    My real question I guess is about the $249 black belt club and $349 Masters Club
    and is this common in BJJ/ MuayThai? And these are for Adults and children, though they train separately.

    My experience has been that most people who consider themselves serious martial artists frown on such things.
  4. Hidama is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:25am


     Style: Tenchu Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    Where and what type/ how large/ how well equipped is the facility?
    10,000 sq ft., 22x22 cage, 24x24 boxing ring (cage and ring available only to masters club members) Bags, large matted area

    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    What is the rank of the Chief instructor?
    Black Belt *fixed


    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    What extra benefits come with the more expensive packages (better instruction, competition prep, more mat time/visits)?
    One would hope....
    extra classes, special patch, preferred seating at school events, invitations to exclusive events

    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    Where is it (downtown, strip mall, YMCA) ?
    industrial area in suburb of major city


    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate

    Some places cost a lot more to rent, heat, cool, maintain.

    Good well made equipment (weight room, good mats) cost serious money.

    Free standing buildings cost more than strip malls.
    Agreed


    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    There's no magic line where it becomes a McDojo.
    That is an interesting statement.
    Last edited by Hidama; 5/10/2007 11:34am at .
  5. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidama
    The monthly prices are in line with most other schools I believe.
    My real question I guess is about the $249 black belt club and $349 Masters Club
    and is this common in BJJ/ MuayThai? And these are for Adults and children, though they train separately.

    My experience has been that most people who consider themselves serious martial artists frown on such things.

    While the terminology is suspect,

    unless you provide the list of benefits that the package provides,

    theres really no way to make a determination.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  6. illuminati is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:30am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At the club where I train there is no guarantee on belt promotion. It's written in our contract and the customer must sign that they acknowledge this aspect. BJJ generally promotes from my understanding based on competition and skillset as opposed to a tracked out program. Did you figure out the rank of the chief instructor?
  7. Hidama is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:32am


     Style: Tenchu Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    While the terminology is suspect,

    unless you provide the list of benefits that the package provides,

    theres really no way to make a determination.
    The terminology has been changed the effect is the same. If they have tiered upgrade programs the result is the same. How does one say yes it is worth it at this school but maybe not so much at another unless you have broad experience at many schools?

    I have heard many say that tiered programs are bullsh*t, everyone should pay one price and get the same training.

    Again though, I am not calling bullshido on this school. I am interested in the general perception of such business practices.
  8. Hidama is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:35am


     Style: Tenchu Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by illuminati
    At the club where I train there is no guarantee on belt promotion. It's written in our contract and the customer must sign that they acknowledge this aspect. BJJ generally promotes from my understanding based on competition and skillset as opposed to a tracked out program. Did you figure out the rank of the chief instructor?
    Yes - legitimate BJJ Black Belt with proven competition record
  9. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 11:35am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidama
    The terminology has been changed the effect is the same. If they have tiered upgrade programs the result is the same. How does one say yes it is worth it at this school but maybe not so much at another unless you have broad experience at many schools?

    I have heard many say that tiered programs are bullsh*t, everyone should pay one price and get the same training.

    Again though, I am not calling bullshido on this school. I am interested in the general perception of such business practices.
    Again,

    Unless you can prove there is no discernable improvement in training quantity/ quality,


    You have no grounds for casting aspersions.


    When you have hard data,


    Post it.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  10. Hidama is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 12:12pm


     Style: Tenchu Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    Again,

    Unless you can prove there is no discernable improvement in training quantity/ quality,


    You have no grounds for casting aspersions.


    When you have hard data,


    Post it.
    I answered all your questions to the best of my knowledge.

    I'm curious what aspersions you think I'm casting. I've already said I don't have an issue with this school. I haven't named them. I simply am asking what the general opinion on this sort of thing is. If you call your black belt club the elite team or other name, it is still a black belt club.

    A student is not allowed to spar at this club until they reach blue belt and for that you need to join the next tier. Now this may have changed but was the case as recently as 2005 and was said by the head instructor.

    Your reply reads like a dismissal because you think you smell a troll. Not the case here. I started this thread because I have a legitimate question.
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