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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 10:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I fucked up my hand pretty good the other day, wearing 12 oz gloves and punching focus mits. It's really made me question the practicality of punching someone in the skull without gloves on.
    With all due respect, how did you manage to do that?
  2. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 11:06am


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jabs, as PirateJon mentioned seem pretty useful to me. Experienced streetfighters have enough sense to watch out for the omni-present big right haymaker. A quick power jab does not leave a whole lot of reaction time, and you can catch someone with it pretty quickly and stagger them.

    Personally, I'm a fan of the jab, then straight right to the solar plexus. It's effective with gloves on, but you get a whole hell of a lot more penetration on the body when it's bareknuckle. Knocks the wind out of them most of the time, and can stop a fight. The jab pulls their hands up, or often they will lean back to move their face away, making that body an obvious target. I like dropping down a bit as I throw the right, as it clears your head under any garbage flailing that they might throw after you've connected with the jab. "Ooooofffffff!"
  3. mullet is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 11:27am


     Style: Boxing (Amateur)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good points there. As regards liver shots, I find it difficult to hit it every time, that's why I don't rely on the punch. Be it left hook or uppercut, I'm never sure if I'll hit the liver or just a section of the abs. But yer when it hits, they go down. I've been hit there hard and I was laid out on the mat unable to move. I thought I was dead. Anyway...

    another good attack would be the blitzkrieg style (ie Vitor Belfort in those early UFC wins) where you rush forward throwing jab/cross in quick succession to the chin. The main reason this would be more effective in a street fight is because the presumption is that the other guy isn't a boxer. Non-fighters/boxers pull their head directly back to avoid punches and this opens them right up to get smacked by the blitzkrieg attack.

    Jabbing - I dunno if this would work at my weight (65kg)... while I do have a decent jab, even a power jab wouldn't do half as much as my cross or a hook. Still, if you're able to stick and move the guy with a shitload of jabs, he could get either really frustrated or just ***** out because the pain becomes too much. Ie winky wright style - just tattoo the guy's face with the jab... although most people on the street wouldn't be able to take that many.

    If you're hurting your hands with 12oz gloves you need to see a doctor, OR you've got ***** hands.

    Regarding hurting your hands when punching skull, you don't try and hit the guy on the top of the hea (it's like a helmet), and the chin / nose isn't that hard when you do punch it. You could always get knuckle dusters with foam padding or something.

    **** just thought of another good move! If the guy ever turns his back to you, or you are clinching him and able to get around to the back of him, rabbit punch the fucker! A good blow to the back of the head knocks anyone down (see Hopkins v Echols II for a good example of this) and then you can stomp the guys head etc.
  4. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 11:35am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    The average schmuck on the street is not a Judoka though.
    A bit of a dangerous line of thought in my opinion. Starting the fight by assuming your opponent is untrained and/or a moron is a good way to be unpleasantly, and possibly finally, surprised.
    well, BJJ is useful if it's a one on one thing, but if you're surrounded by his friends, I'd rather standup and try my best instead of going to the grounds.
    Me too, but it might happen whether you like it or not. It's probably most likely when outnumbered.
    Quote Originally Posted by mullet
    Jabbing - I dunno if this would work at my weight (65kg)... while I do have a decent jab, even a power jab wouldn't do half as much as my cross or a hook.
    Jab for the win! The only boxer I know can hit standup-impaired me with a jab all day long, and it's absolutely minimum commitment. Since this is probably 'self defence' rather than attempted murder that makes it totally ideal.
    Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 2/14/2006 11:39am at .
  5. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 12:08pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    With all due respect, how did you manage to do that?
    I wasn't wearing handwraps under them and was hitting full speed. I think it was the left hooks that did it. I was trying to murder those mits.
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 12:11pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I wasn't wearing handwraps under them and was hitting full speed. I think it was the left hooks that did it. I was trying to murder those mits.

    Just a guess: you hook with the fist horizontally and the pain you have radiates from wrist to your ring and pinky fingers, right?
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 2:08pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    what about elbows, open hand strikes and slaps??????

    Elbows, elbows, elbows. Elbows are your mother, your father and your 24/7 convenient lover. If you can pull it out, elbows can be your opponent's pain button. If the dude in front of you is getting up close, not close enough for a headbutt, but close enough to grab his right hand with your right, you can pull an ikkyo like arm pinning. Never done it, but I saw one dude do it... the cracking sound was nasty. :new_Eyecr

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I fucked up my hand pretty good the other day, wearing 12 oz gloves and punching focus mits. It's really made me question the practicality of punching someone in the skull without gloves on.

    Much more useful to throw a push kick and/or clinch and throw knees/elbows which won't break as easily.
    Funny you mention you didn't use hand wraps cuz it happened to me well over 5 weeks ago. I was hitting a wavemaster with my gloves (I forgot the wraps at home). I was hitting it lightly, and yet, somehow my right hand got swollen. I have a little bulge on the reverse side of my right hand, between the little and ring metacarpals. It's better now, but sometimes it hurts just to open a water faucet...

    ... anyways...

    How about open hand strikes or slaps? I keep seeing people here saying that a open hand strike to the nose or to the neck is BS ... BUT... if you can deliver a powerfull cross, you can also deliver a powerful open hand strike or slap with your rear hand...

    ... at least the little tiney tiny bones in one's fist do not get turned into grit. And if you can deliver several punches with a close fist, you can also deliver several open hand strikes... I think.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 2:14pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Elbows and open hand slaps are not boxing. :eng101:


    Now plain old striking, sure - but I'd still throw closed fist. :guitar:
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 2:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJon
    Elbows and open hand slaps are not boxing. :eng101:
    Oh... that's true... DOH!!!! :eusa_doh:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Spear Sister

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2006 2:25pm

    supporting membersupporting member
     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I fucked up my hand pretty good the other day, wearing 12 oz gloves and punching focus mits. It's really made me question the practicality of punching someone in the skull without gloves on.

    Much more useful to throw a push kick and/or clinch and throw knees/elbows which won't break as easily.
    I punch hard ass heavy bags with little more then wraps. (and thats with my already extremely busted up hands) I think you might have misaligned something on that paticular punch.

    Though personally on hooks without gloves (and often even with) i tend to hit with the palm. Safer for me because my left index finger was jacked up and i cant close it properly to get it out of the way on hooks.

    For straight punches i think fists are peachy though probably a little safer with more of a verticle slant.
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