Fang Shen Do

[Corvus]

Do some research on Martial Arts before claiming how good Fang Shen Do is. If you do not know who the Dog Brothers are, you are completely lacking in knowledge about Martial Arts and have no basis for expertese.

Google is your friend, you will never find a Bullshido thread or a thread anywhere on the internet criticizing the Dog Brothers.

Where did I state anywhere in my posts that I said I was an expert in Martial arts?

So, by your standard - ONLY martial artists who fight in Pride are worthy of your respect?

What's your Pride record?

[Cdnronin]

[B]Hello boys, just dropped in to see what condition my codition was in, if you follow my flow! Listen, here's the thing and its actually very easy to follow.

A story is floating around that a guy with a few lessons in the ancient art of Find'em and Hit'em pimped a Fang Shen Don't Sifu.

Why in all that is silly and gay in the world of silk pajamas and slipperswould you not want to question the effectiveness of you style?!?

I had a friend who bought his first car in Grade 10. He loved that car, but it was a Pinto!!! YOU'RE DRIVING THE PINTO OF THE MARTIAL ARTS COMMUNITY!!!!

TKD
]

Wow! Burned by TKD.That's low.

[Askari]

So lets do an analysis of that Phon Sao Video shall we?

Partner A is the initial Attacker,
Partner B is the initial defender.

Partner B (The short guy on the right with the yellow belt) nods his head to let his attacker know that he is confident and that now is the time to attack.

Partner A (That's the bigger guy on the left) throws a fully extended punch that stops well short of Partner B's head. Contemptously waiting until after the punch comes to a complete stop, Partner B then raises his hand in some sort of blocking motion, perhaps intended to be a Bong Sao that rolls to a Ton Sao, only perhaps visualizing that he is swating a fly.

Partner B then traps the fully extended arm that is still sitting with the fist in front of his face (using what vaguely like a Wing Chun Pak Sao, but low end) of Partner B and throws a punch that also stops fully extended about a foot short of Partner A's head. Partner A does a very soft Pak Sao (after the punch has already stopped) that Partner B will then Chin Sao around, but man that is a sloppy Chin Sao.

Partner B looks away from his attacker and proceeds to attempt to trap the forearms of his partner A downwards (these would usually be called a Chin Sao and a Gum Sao in Wing Chun) then to flick his fingers around the kneck of Partner A in what looks like an attempt at a series of edge of hand blows. Since Partner B is not in any way comparable to a Carl Cestari, Partner A suffers no damage.

View This Video

[Askari]

So, by your standard - ONLY martial artists who fight in Pride are worthy of your respect?

Almost exactly that, and yes my rank certificates are signed by a Pride Champion, who signed yours?

I respect anyone who is legit in what they teach, MMA is not my only benchmark. I like people that wear the belts their instructors gave them and claiming only that which they are capable of doing.

So I would and do choose to train with people who will always treat their students with respect and honesty. This doesnt matter if I was training Wing Chun or Jiu-Jitsu or BJJ, honesty and respect from the instructor is step one.

There does exist good and honest Chinese Martial Arts. It is not found in Fang Shen Do.

Corvus, There is a constant claim to know that Fang Shen Do is the best of the best, Do you have any experience to corroborate this? My initial Dog Brothers post was intended for the other FSD poster who has recently come out of the woodwork. I suggest becoming educated on the Martial Arts that are similiar to your own in order to judge that which you are learning.



Edited to add: I can walk up to anyone I have ever had as an instructor and ask him or her who their instructor was and look at their certificates. This is normal. If you can not do this with your instructor then you have a problem that is a lot greater then your hurt fealings because you are just now realizing you were duped.

Think about it, can you really ask Jacques Patenaude as your instructor to see all of the certificates from his instructors and his history?

[TKD Black Belt]

A convicted coke dealer from QC......

Oh wait were you talking to me? We've had a few questionable characters in TKD over the years ;)

TKD

PS - Ronin, you sound surprised that I would be able to flex a little verbal muscle!

I'm comfortable enough in my own sexuality to roll around with other men but there's no way in hell I'm wearing silk pajamas!

[Cdnronin]

I've hijacked the video clips to start a new thread for technical discussion in the YOUR MARTIAL ART IS OK BY ME section of the newer, kinder, gentler Bullshido. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32845

[It is Fake]

Okay back to the fight. If 2 sifu's won a MMA event wouldn't this help your argument corvus?

I mean it is now a rumor but we have had no less than 5 people state there is evidence or a MMA fight.

Are you confirming these articles aren't up in the school as stated?

Or, are you so new that they have been removed prior to your arrival?

[TKD Black Belt]

Okay back to the fight. If 2 sifu's won a MMA event wouldn't this help your argument corvus?

Absolutely, this would be like having the head cheerleader's panties. (You can play with that one as you see fit although I suspect a strong fimilarity with women's underwear comes more out of wearing them than any other means.)

mean it is now a rumor but we have had no less than 5 people state there is evidence or a MMA fight.

Riiiiiight, and last night I picked up two really hot girls, but they live out of town, somewhere you wouldn't have heard of and um, they don't have phones and um like they can't email me or anything cause their dad is like a cop........

you confirming these articles aren't up in the school as stated?

Shovels for sale! Great big shovels, great for digging holes and widening existing ones.

, are you so new that they have been removed prior to your arrival?

Oh now, Sifu's been there since day one....... Oh, I'm sorry I mean yes, he's new in fact he's only just got his silk nylons for the outfit.

TKD :glasses13

[PeterPantsless]

As to the effectiveness of FSD, what if I told you that I know a guy who, after some "real" grappling training, sparred Martin Patenaude and not only took him down but mounted him (i.e. sat on his chest)?

I would love to hear more details on this story.

[Stringfellow]

I just recently finished an interesting book by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, called Freakonomics. In a nutshell it’s the analytical apparatus of economics applied to non-economic phenomenae. A pretty good read. One story in particular caught my attention in light of Fang Shen Do’s recent “Bullshido Incident”.

They talk about a man named Stetson Kennedy and the Ku Klux Klan. At the end of Word War II, membership in the KKK was on the rise and they were once again becoming a powerful force in America. Kennedy wanted to do something about it, so he signed up in Atlanta (the KKK’s headquarters) as a means of infiltrating the group.

Initially, he took notes about the meetings and fed this information to various government officials and prosecutors, but the Klan was by then so entrenched that his efforts were futile. Then he hit upon a brilliant idea. He began feeding all of the Klan’s secrets – their passwords, handshakes, secret names and customs, to the producers of the Adventures of Superman radio show, who had agreed to incorporate the material into a storyline where Superman fights the KKK. The effect was immediate outrage within the Klan and eventually, when it became clear that they couldn’t find the mole, new memberships dropped to almost zero. The Klan’s strength lie within their secrets and rituals, and once everyone knew them, their power diminished.

The authors refer to this as “information asymmetry” – whomever has the most information in a given situation has the advantage. When I think about it, it seems to me that the Patenaudes have relied on this tool for a long time themselves. Consider this: prior to the Bullshido Incident, if you wanted information on Fang Shen Do, any information at all, you can but one source – the Patenaudes themselves. Now, they’ve been doing this for a long time and they’re skilled salesmen for the most part, so of course everything sounds rosy. But again, it’s not like you could look up ex-students and ask their opinion on the school or otherwise get any background on them. They controlled all of the information regarding Fang Shen Do. There was an information asymmetry in their favour.

Contrast that with the situation now, after the Bullshido Incident. Now any prospective student has another source of information – one that includes information provided by current and ex-students and provides another insight into the organization. The scales have tipped away from the Patenaudes and more towards the individual. I also think that if you go back to the early posts on this thread and on the article itself, you’ll see that the posts by “Jane”, “John” (both I’ve been led to believe are aliases for the Patenaudes) and others are a very crude attempt to shut down this alternative source of information. Of course it didn’t work and only served to expose them further. They were very skilled in the past at controlling information, but with technologies like the Internet and sites like Bullshido, the individual is now more empowered than ever.

I honest think that this will have a serious effect on Fang Shen Do, though it may take some time to play out. I still believe that the majority of the students currently attending don’t even know about the Bullshido Incident, but that may eventually change. At the same time, new information is coming to light on a regular basis, and different people are hard at work investigating and corroborating it. The scale continues to tip towards the individual. It will be interesting to see how the Patenaudes react.