Fang Shen Do

**Krackie** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 4:40pm

Originally Posted by enhanced
The one thing none of you can dispute is the effectivness of the system as far as self defense goes.

Even if this is remotely accurate, which I doubt based on former students' comments, all the other critiques about FSD, JP, $$, intimidation, lawsiuts, cultish behavior, misrepresentation etc. far outwiegh this alleged benefit. There are many clubs that will offer effective self-defence without the bullshit.

**Stringfellow** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 4:45pm

Originally Posted by Cdnronin

Ironically, there are a couple of former FSD students/instructors who have gone on to align themselves with first and second generation Bruce Lee students, and I wish them all the best. I suppose they wanted something a little closer to the source.

Good point. Where Fang Shen Do really goes off the rails is in its claims to be an effective street-fighting system. If kung-fu is your thing, then by all means, go for it. Just avoid FSD.

**Stringfellow** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 4:46pm

Originally Posted by enhanced

The one thing none of you can dispute is the effectivness of the system as far as self defense goes.

Seriously, I want to know how you guys are picking your names. You're making it way too easy.

**TKD Black Belt** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 7:28pm

Originally Posted by enhanced

The one thing none of you can dispute is the effectivness of the system as far as self defense goes.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH *breath* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *breath* BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Welcome Sijo! We've all been wondering when you'd show up. How grand it is that you've decided to grace us with your eminent presence.

I'll give you a moment to adjust your silk sash and arrange your hair. Would you like to check your makeup? No? I'll go on....

How about a guy with a few weeks of Jiu Jitsu training? You think he'd pose a problem to a, oh I don't know, lets say a Fang Shen Do instructor? I'll give you some time to think about that answer.

TKD

Seriously though, does this outfit make me look fat? I mean I have nothing that matches with gold!

PS - Enhanced? Enhanced what masculinity? Come on lets try a bit harder next time, okay!

**Corvus** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 8:11pm

Hello all,

I am a current student of Fang Shen Do and have been for well over a year now. I have been following this thread since its inception, and I must say, I was a little reluctant to post with my comments. It seems this thread has turned from a frank discussion on Fang Shen Do to a bit of a "witch hunt", so pardon me if I appear a bit gun shy. I hope by contributing to this thread I can offer up some insight into MY experiences with Fang Shen Do. I cannot speak for the entire organization, nor can I provide any information on how J. Patenaude runs his organization. I have only met the man once and I found him to be an articulate and kind individual. I can only comment on how this organization treats me and the benefits it provides me.

I am not a kool-aid drinker. Nor am I a dog-**** sniffer. Frankly, I am FLOORED by some of the things I have read over the past few weeks - by both sides. It would appear that lunatics thrive in both the "for" and "against" camps. By the way, as a former journalism student, I thought Stringfellow's article was well written.

I'm not sure I have the "beans" to go over this entire thread and provide my input on it, but feel free to shoot any questions you have my way. I won't let ego get in the way, nor will I throw any threats your way (immature and retarded...). Oh - keep in mind, I don't know jack or **** about the history of J. Patenaude, Wing Chun Do, Demile or anything to do with the Patenaude family/organization. I can only comment on my experiences with the system itself.

Cheers,
Corvus

**Askari** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 8:48pm

Well Corvus,

Why dont you go and ask your Sifu about the history of his art and the questions posed on this thread and then come back and tell us his take on the matter?

Now some questions for you:

Which club do you train at?

Who is your instructor?

Have you ever had a private lesson?

How much do you pay each month?

Did you join the secret midnight "Inner Circle"?

How often per week do you train?

**enhanced** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 9:12pm

I'm in a similar boat to Corvus. I'm a current student of FSD. I have been reading this thread for about a week now and I'll admit that most of the things I've read have disheartened me.
I actually agree with some of the points that have come up and i just do not care about others to be honest.

So having said that you know I'm not an instructor. I'm sort of surprised how fast one of you guys jumped to that conclusion.

Some of you people are coming off as just bitter and that's your right . Your experience is yours and I can't dispute it. I know students who feel just like you guys.
But my experience has been positive. I know others who have had positive experiences aswell.
I would say that my training in FSD has been one of the bes things in my life.

Some of you are gonna jump all over that and slag me but try to remember just as I am acknowledging your bad experience try to acknowledge my good one.

I agree that this did start out as a good discussion but quickly just turned into the same 10 dudes rehashing the same points over and over and patting your selves on the backs.

I admit that there have been some interesting points brouhgt up it's undeniable.
But none of you can say or prove that the system is not effective for self defense.
I can't prove to you that it is either. But in my mind I have no doubt that I can defend myself.

Let's discuss grappling because you guys always bring it up, and rightfully so it is one of the ways a fight can go, to the ground.

We do practise grappling in class just not very often, and by that I mean hardly ever, but over the years I have grappled and am comfortable on the ground. Now would I stand up against a trained grapppler? No way. But I can easily hold my own against the average dude on the street who wants to fight me.
I may one day face a trained grapppler who wants to fight and well, we'll see what happens then but, I'm not worried about the average asshole on the street.
Period.

Next sparring.
I don't know where you guys sparred but I spar at HQ and it has always been safe and fun, as fun as it can be getting hit.
I feel like my skill has really improved lately and it was all because of the sparring.
If you want to consider yourself a martial artist you need to spar or you're just fooling yourself.
I've never been in a sparring class where we put on the gloves and just waled on each other that has never happened. The other guys and girls I've trained with have always respected each others ability and comfort levels.

I don't consider myself a tough guy by any means but I know have confidense in myself from training in FSD where I did not before.
You will never see me get in a ring and fight because I have nothing to prove and Iit's not my idea of a good time. I go to class so I can defend myself if needed. I got picked on alot in school ans was always intimidated, well no more!

I have alot I could say about FSD but this post is getting long. so I'll stop here I'm sure there will be feed back...

**marcdscott** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 9:24pm

One of the big issues is how do you judge the effectiveness of FSD when you don't spar or train outside of the system?

**Askari** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 9:26pm

Let's discuss grappling because you guys always bring it up, and rightfully so it is one of the ways a fight can go, to the ground.

We do practise grappling in class just not very often, and by that I mean hardly ever, but over the years I have grappled and am comfortable on the ground. Now would I stand up against a trained grapppler? No way. But I can easily hold my own against the average dude on the street who wants to fight me.
I may one day face a trained grapppler who wants to fight and well, we'll see what happens then but, I'm not worried about the average asshole on the street.
Period.

Enhanced, good post, how about you answer the same questions I posted to Corvus? Basicly the answers to those questions will tell us how legit you are.

Also, if you think you can grapple, why not walk into the nearest BJJ club and tell them you do FSD. Ask to spar with a guy with equivelent experience to you. Say, you have 3 years of FSD, spar with someone who has 3 years of BJJ. Low rules and see who wins. Then come back and post the video.

And last count there is about 60 to 80 people who have posted on these threads. Including some real ass-hats that are Fang Shen Do instructors.

**Cdnronin** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 9:52pm

Originally Posted by enhanced

I'm in a similar boat to Corvus. I'm a current student of FSD. I have been reading this thread for about a week now and I'll admit that most of the things I've read have disheartened me.
I actually agree with some of the points that have come up and i just do not care about others to be honest.

Some of you are gonna jump all over that and slag me but try to remember just as I am acknowledging your bad experience try to acknowledge my good one.

I agree that this did start out as a good discussion but quickly just turned into the same 10 dudes rehashing the same points over and over and patting your selves on the backs.

I admit that there have been some interesting points brouhgt up it's undeniable.
But none of you can say or prove that the system is not effective for self defense.
I can't prove to you that it is either. But in my mind I have no doubt that I can defend myself.

I don't consider myself a tough guy by any means but I know have confidense in myself from training in FSD where I did not before.
You will never see me get in a ring and fight because I have nothing to prove and Iit's not my idea of a good time. I go to class so I can defend myself if needed. I got picked on alot in school ans was always intimidated, well no more!

I have alot I could say about FSD but this post is getting long. so I'll stop here I'm sure there will be feed back...

Thank you for your tempered and well thought out response. Would you mind expanding on a few points for me? I can appreciate that you believe that you can defend yourself because of your Fang Shen Do training. I can fully relate to not getting in a ring. Now would you say that your increased level of confidence could only come through with FSD, or do you have experience with other martial arts that didn't give you the same level of confidence? what I'm asking is to break it down, is it the FSD that makes you feel more confident in yourself, or could you get the same feeling of confidence from a judo or boxing club? were you picked on because of your small size(I'm guessing) and working out has improved your physique?

I will give you an example. For a while, I took TKD with my son, as something to do together. The class was a mixed group, young and old, male amd female. I was probably the only person in the class with prior MA experience. Everyone was
excited and confident about the new techniques they were learning, I was clamping down on my jaw to avoid shouting in some classes. Teaching a side kick to the ribs, followed by a crescent kick to disarm, was presented to a family class as a knife disarm. Most people were wowed by the awesome kicking display, I was thinking, if he moves that blade, you'll be cut badly. Too dangerous for my tastes, yet again most folks were impressed. It has no basis in reality, but they felt more confident knowing it. It was a technique that literally will get you killed, but it looked cool.

Have you any experience with other martial arts to compare your FSD training with?