Posted On:2/18/2006 7:34pm
Style: Fang Shen Do
As promised here is a post with the proof of our fight! In the gallery you will find (at least the web said that they were up loaded...)
1 Copy of the poster advertising - Video
2 Cover of magazine – Fang Shen Do listed on cover
3 Picture from magazine – Showing me as new WECF champion
In regards to the other question, I think you have to understand that Fang Shen Do is not, nor has ever claimed to be a MMA. The majority of our students are average people that want to work out and learn how to defend themselves. For this reason, we have some traditional techniques as well as a solid core of reality-based, aggressive techniques that will allow them to defend themselves against a common street attack.
Sifu Pat and I fought because it was a personal thing and we wanted to show Fang Shen Do - it is not for all students - most have no interest in competing. They are happy to work out and learn to defend themselves.
Sifu Pat said in his post - we respect MMA Fighters. We met a lot that night that we liked and that liked us. A lot of them had very positive things to say about us and the way we fought. Some of those fighters are in the TKO / UCC and other Federations to this day.
The money seems to be an issue. This is simple supply and demand. There are many schools that charge more than us, some as high as $1,700.00 per year (and that is in Ottawa). We talk quite frequently with organizations in the US, and they tell us that there are schools charging $200.00 per month for a regular membership. This is the Free Enterprise System. Our students like the results they get, so they join. No one forces them to - they are free to leave or not join - that's the advantage of living in a democratic society - people have choices. Judging by the success of our schools, you have to admit that people are satisfied with what they are getting.
I personally have never met any Instructor of Sijo's but have never considered this an issue. I have seen his certificates. I judge the results based on my experience.
I played football, lifted weights and wrestled in high school. I came to Fang Shen Do 16 years ago and it has made a huge difference in my life. I worked for four years as a (like many of the other instructors) bouncers downtown. I now operate two Fang Shen DO schools and teach 15 classes a week, along with my wife and two daughters.
I now use Fang Shen Do to help others.
One of my assistant’s parents have told me that our system has been a positive influence in channeling his temper. He was also shy - he was with me a year before I heard him say a word. Now he is getting ready to open a school. He is confident and as a 20 year old teaches adults and kids alike with sincerity and passion.
I also have 2 Foster Children who just lost their father. Their mother enrolled them in the kids BBC so they will have a positive male role model! One of their teachers said that the positive improvement is nothing short of miraculous - and the mother credits this all to the Richmond School.
Every Fang Shen Do school has these stories…...
There is no cult. We do maintain some Martial Arts traditions with the salutes and the respect for Sijo but we are a group of different individuals with different priorities. The consistent factor is our love for teaching and our dedication to Fang Shen Do. That is the loyalty that used to embody the Martial Arts.
I realize that this will most likely be an impasse. I will not convince you of the positive things many others and I have experienced because of training in Fang Shen Do.
You will label me a brainwashed minion of an evil master.
You will not convince me that I belong to a cult, pay too much money or do not teach a valued system.
I will think of you as close-minded people who just want to cause controversy.
So having said that, I have attempted to put down my feelings in an honest and straightforward manner. You will see that our Web Page doesn't "bash" anyone. I have no problem with anyone who leaves the system in an honest and honorable manner that befits a Martial Artist. I have a smaller school in a small town. I have had students who stop training and still stop by to say hello. In fact, the some of them refer people to me, like the teacher of the foster child.
This is my personal and honest thoughts on the matter - accept or reject what you will, I will not waste my time and yours by arguing or defending through further posts.
All the best.
Posted On:2/18/2006 8:03pm
Style: Hei Long Gong Fu
They are not there.
No pictures in your gallery at all. Try again.
Seriously man my big problem is from what I've heard you pay WAY too much. You can get good martial arts training for less than half the price and from what I've seen the longer you stay in FSD the more it costs you.
The Chinese have an expression I use a lot...
Tai guei le!
The Bottom Brick
Posted On:2/18/2006 8:59pm
Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu
Its kind of too bad that the other instructors from the Patenaude clan did not post in as forthright a manner as you did.
For example Stephane Patenaude's personal attacks on a former student, that may or may not have been a person posting on these threads. You see when people judge your club and they search it on the internet, what they are going to read are the comments by a member of your Sijo's family as he proves the statements that others have made about your club.
Overall, former students seem to get treated fairly poorly, even current students are reported as facing verbal abuse and threats directly from Jacques Patinaude during his seminars.
As well as S. Patenaude calling out anyone that wanted to come by his club and have a street fight. Last I checked inciting people to come to a fight in this fashion was on the opposite side of the law from where most of us like to opperate.
Overall we do not have a pretty picture of the organization that you are within. Even bad groups have some decent people within them, I guess the mark is what they do when they realize the problem.
Also, no pics in the gallery. Try putting them up as an attachment to your next post, it should work that way, you can attach multiple images.
Posted On:2/18/2006 11:11pm
The gallery's are hosed right now (there's a thread in the support forum on it). You'll need to find one of those free services that will let you post stuff, or perhaps your ISP gives you some space. Unless someone here has a place they could put it.
I agree with Askari - I appreciate you being forthright, and you have my respect for that.
Posted On:2/18/2006 11:46pm
Style: Maybe Kyokushin soon...
Okay smartass which club in ottawa charges 1700 a year for fees? **** Bob Carvers charges 130 or MT and grappling 6 days a week. I dare you to find me a more expensive school that actually teaches real martial arts.
Posted On:2/18/2006 11:50pm
Style: FSD / MMA
Hello to everyone:
I have heard from friends about this forum and all the crazy Fang Shen Do posts and decided to have a look for myself. I usually don't spend much time chatting on the internet but I could not resist when reading all these posts. I'm not going to bother hiding my identity because I have nothing really to hide. I have been doing FSD for ten years and decided to retire from it not more than a week ago. My wife and I are leaving Ottawa and following different dreams. I also felt that it was time I broaden my martial arts training.
In the past I have been what I thought was really good to the FSD organization taking part in a variety of things including the BBC, Leadership Team, Masters Club etc... along with numerous seminars. I also worked for them a little passing out flyers and signing people up to their school. I have always respected them and spoke highly of their clubs. When I decided to part ways with them I wrote this polite letter:
This document will be my official resignation from all Fang Shen Do schools, events, and seminars. It is given with much hesitation and a little disappointment, but nevertheless is a necessity. It is undoubtedly time to move forward on to other dreams which require my departure from the city of Ottawa. It has been a long road to get to where I’m at and it is unfortunate that I have to leave at this time, but I feel it is the best decision for me. I will be in the city for a couple more months while Mandy and I prepare to move, but have decided to resign from Fang Shen Do now. I want to thank you for all that you’ve taught me, and hope that you respect me and my decision to part paths and embark on a different journey. I hope FSD continues to grow and prosper as I will look forward to reading about it out west.
Thank you for your time and cooperation,
February 10th, 2006
Now to continue I have to say I mean no disrespect to any of the sifus and especially not to Sifu Scott who has been ever so kind to me and my wife over the years. He is a good human being and I wish him all the success he more than deserves. Infact, there should be more people like him teaching martial arts. He loves his art, is good at it, and obviously inspires many students. Having said that, his post is the reason I decided to respond. You said in your post Scott that "I have no problem with anyone who leaves the system in an honest and honorable manner that befits a Martial Artist."
My question for you is:
Is my letter to the Patenaudes not a polite and honest resignation, or is it crap?
Is it deserving of the response I recieved from them which was this?
Sijo's words for you.
There is no halfway to success or being half pregnant.
Richard you have all kinds of potentials but you do not deeply believe and are afraid to find out what your made of.
You went to school, you are a reader but maybe you are a man of no action.
I make humanity advance. I kick butt so people can reap some kind of success , that's my job.
Martial arts is truly a way of life , a path, and I'm proud to walk on it.
We have tried with you many times , both Sifu , Linda and myself, and all you gave me is an email!!
I guess I'm a litte upset about the disrespect they've shown me. I don't deserve to be called a man of no action, or that I'm afraid to find out what I'm really made of. My wife and I gave up our house, sold our two cars and put what we had into a U-haul to move to Ottawa so that I could continue FSD, and this is the respect I get. All this tells me is that they really don't know me. You Scott know me, you know I train hard, and harder than most. You know I'm interested in having my own school some day as you sat down and spoke with me and my wife about it. I just don't understand why they responded with such disrespectful comments. I don't deserve that, and I'm disappointed.
This was also only half of their reply. The other half was slapping me with a $570 dollar departure bill saying that I owe them this, and that I missed an opportunity of fullfilment and happiness. What is that I ask? Who says I'm not happy or fullfilled? For an organization that I always talked good about I find it hard to continue to do so.
I know that I risk my neck putting this out there, but I feel it may be the only way to get an honest response.
Richard (ex-FSD student)
Posted On:2/19/2006 12:48pm
I have a few comments to make and I will try to keep them in clear thought patterns. There were earlier comments on Brian Dean. It is true that Scott and Sifu Pat went in in a very forceful manner and made all the students hand over their sashes etc. It was horrible. Its too bad Scott allows himself to be used in this bullying style-he's a better person than that. Brian is currently in his own battle with the Patenaudes and I hope he wins. I also hope he gets wind of this site and knows he has alot of support if he needs it. Stringfellow is correct...he has linked up with a proper teacher...I believe he has links through the US but I can get confirmation later.
As for poor Dan they went in and told him he wasn't good enough to have a school. Its a sad story. Initially Dan worked full time and drove 3-4 nights to Belleville to teach and I have learned eventually quit his full time job and became a hostage of FSD. He gave them 25K for the franchise and they are giving him nothing back which is sickening. I'm hoping he will take legal action. He aslo apparently wanted to go back and train in Alymer or Gatineau where he started and they told him he wasn't allowed. I hope Dan gets back on his feet and I'm hoping he wasn't that gullible to take a franchise without having some way of recovering funds if this happened. Someone needs to give him legal advice. I knew Dan before the school and he was only a green sash and I believe had his brown stripe when he took the school. My experience with him as an instructor is he had alot to learn and Patenaude's should have developed him instead of feeding him to the wolves!
Askari, I look forward to meeting you one day. When I'm ready I'll probably come check out your teachings. I've only heard good things about you. Noob, good luck in JJ....I always liked working with you in FSD....
Its interesting no one has responded to Richard's posting of his email from Sijo. Its quite astonishing that you are incredible when you belong and as soon as you leave you are weak and nothing. Richard is a great guy and weak is not they way I would describe him! Lets see how if a Sifu responds.....
Really what needs to happen is to get this out to the masses. STringfellow's article needs to be posted on pole near the schools so students and parents of students have a chance to find out whats really going on...Anyone in?
As for the scrap at training camp it was funny. It was Sifu Stephane's girlfriend who freaked out and she was sparring with an asst instructor also from ORleans. The best part was when Sijo said we were weak for getting injured as his wife Linda could do everything with ease that we were doing. Anyone that knows Linda, I'd love to see her back flip up to the top of the tower and come down after doing the morning run etc....that would be a site! And I agree with the person who posted about the military guy...that was odd.....but this guy lives in the bush and seems to keep away from people so not surprised that he is an eccentric crazy guy like Sijo.
I also enjoyed STringfellow's reference to the bowed head and chuckle...I experienced that several times. Very strange behaviour. But I have one better. I recently learned of "Wooshing your problems away" and for $150 dollars Sijo will show you how to take your problems from your left to right hand and "Woosh them away". I cracked up with this story, unfortunately it is true. The worst part is that you have to pay a fee to get advice and talk to Sijo...He has no qualifications for this...I'd be surprised if he even has a highschool diploma
I know that I said the post before was my last one, but respect deserves respect
- so I wanted to answer Richard....
First, I want to thank you for having the courage of your convictions and posting your name. You have no need to fear your neck….
Also thank you for the kind words – at the risk of sounding cult-ish – I am
a good instructor cause I was taught to be one.
I really enjoyed the classes that we taught together. You are good martial artist and have a ton of potential. Sijo and Linda told me about your departure a little while ago when I was downtown. Although you may not believe me (although I will swear to this), it was not mentioned in a negative or demeaning manner. I believe Linda’s quote to me was “this is Richard’s decision and we will respect it” – on my daughter’s life that was said.
Also as God’s own truth: I spoke to Sifu Pat about this a few days ago. He mentioned that you had left with class and even sent a follow up e-mail to ensure that we received the first one. And if I am not wrong, he is one of the instructors who spent a ton of one-on-one training with you. He told me, and I agree, you are a good guy, who is looking for a change – I have not heard anything negative mentioned about you since your resignation
Obviously I cannot comment on Sijo’s e-mail – it was written from him – but it sounds like he is disappointed to lose a student with potential. I did not read any disrespect into it, but that is an individual thing.
Anyway, as are leaving soon – I wish you and Mandy the best of luck in your future and all the happiness in the world
Posted On:2/19/2006 1:00pm
Thanks for the kind words.
You seem like a very decent guy. And I want to re-iterate my respect for you coming onto this forum and presenting yourself in this positive fashion. I am very interested in your continued comentary.
Have you read the other threads on this forum as well? Some of the organizations referenced in this thread as belt sellers are discussed further in orther parts of this board. But did you really read nothing into your Sijo's words? How about:
I make humanity advance.
It's a little creapy.
Last edited by Askari; 2/19/2006 1:18pm at .
Posted On:2/19/2006 1:12pm
Posting article on telephone pole near school = huge lawsuit against both the author and Bullshido.
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