Ridiculous kung fu nationalism in Hong Kong films from the 60s and 70s

**Wounded Ronin** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:09pm

I tend to watch a lot of low budget Hong Kong kungfu films from the 60s and 70s which are released nowadays by companies like Saturn who probably bought the rights to the films for next to nothing.

One thing I noticed as a constant theme in these old martial arts films is how kung fu is automatically better than any Japanese martial arts. This is most pronounced in the films that are set in the 20th century, and which deal with the Japanese occupation of asia back in the 1930s up through World War II. An example of this would be "The China Connection" with Bruce Lee.

There even seem to be some cliches revolving around this sort of thing. Japanese martial arts instructors are fat and arrogant, and practically waddle as they attack. They start to lose and then they pull weapons. (Some weird interpretation or cultural impression of large judoka?)

Kung fu practitioners are always skinny and muscular, and tend to have super righteous rage powers that make Japanese fighters, or karate-trained individuals, evaporate.

I've even seen one low-budget production with Bruce Li called "the real story of Bruce Lee" where a wing chun sporting Bruce Li with Bruce Lee mannerisms effortlessly demolishes an entire gym full of thai boxers and the fat muay thai coach is forced to say, "kung fu is better than muay thai!!!!"

But, you know the saying from Hamlet, "I think she doth protest too much". Realistically, in the context of the 20th century, I'm pretty sure that in general kyokushinkai players or judo players would probably trash most 20th century kungfu players. This goes back to emphasis on sparring rather than emphasis on forms.

I can only wonder if this enormous emphasis I see on Japanese martial arts automatically losing is some kind of gigantic reaction to kungfu fighters losing a lot in reality, or something. I mean, especially vs. muay thai. Geeze.

**Baator-Steel** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:15pm

Its not just films from back then my friend. Check out fist of legend and the soon to be released Fearless.

Now you wanna see a good movie watch Bad Boys From Brazil....... Heh heh heh its so bad its good.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:18pm

I'll break your master's sign and make you eat the glass.

**Thaiboxerken** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:19pm

I have to wonder where all of these kung fu masters went to. I mean, according to Chinese history, there were legends that could destroy people of any other country and martial art throughout China's different eras. However, today, there simply isn't a big Chinese presence in international kickboxing or MMA events.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:25pm

No, they do San Shou.

**Thaiboxerken** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:34pm

Yes, they invent their own sport to rival Muay Thai. I still don't see Chinese masters fighting in MMA.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 6:51pm

Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken

Yes, they invent their own sport to rival Muay Thai. I still don't see Chinese masters fighting in MMA.

CMAs seem to lack ground game. I asked JKDChick to look into why when she said I could propose an article for her to write. She's a very busy woman, but I hope she still gets time to look into this deeply, because I'm genuinely curious.

I suspect that that now there is a BJJ academy in Beijing, there will be reasonable chinese MMA fighters along soon enough (although this won't magically turn their ground game into CMA of course). There are of course people with CMA backgrounds for their standup in MMA now.

I think of CMA at it's best as offering standup + some slightly 'exotic looking' yoga-like conditioning. It can work in San Shou, even against people with 'approved' training like Muay Thai. I acknowledge that there's a huge amount of non-sparring CMA about. That's about the size of it.

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:15pm

It takes time. Remember Muay Thai people didn't immediately start participating in MMA tourneys when they first popped up. Sanshou is relatively new, hopefully the Chinese will start following the path of Cung Le though and enter the world of MMA.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:17pm

San Shou is older than UFC or Pride, but the chinese haven't really gone far enough down the road of getting into 'groundwork' yet.

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 2/15/2006 7:19pm

and the film thing seems to extend to more than just martial arts. Afterall, last time I checked the older generation of Chinese still doesn't have too fond an opinion of the Japanese.

Speaking as a member of a Chinese family where all the older generations think Japanese are inherently cruel creatures or something ridiculous like that.