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  1. benfscott is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 12:47pm


     Style: Southern Praying Mantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eternal Rage, I just wanted to say that was probably the most articulate and well put across post in this entire thread. I agree with just about everything you say.

    Yep, there's no such thing as a killer invincible technique (apart from my Chi Blast, obviously! :cool: ), regardless of style but a wrestler who doesn't expect a thumb in his eye because he doesn't train it in the gym is as unprepared as the idiot doing a hundred chain punches while standing on his tip toes, wondering why his opponent hasn't cumpled yet.

    Also agree that the best fighters are 'true' mixed martial artists, as in they know as much of the science and technique of fighting standing up and on the ground.

    Just rewatched Marco Ruas at UFC 7 making great use of his Muay Thai punching and kicking skills to keep that 300lbs 6'8" Varelons at bay. Amazing use of technique in just about every range against a far larger opponent.

    On a side note, although he teaches it seperately, my current sifu is also a UK Gracie-Barra BJJ instructor. Might have to check out a class or two.

    Thanks again for taking the time to make your point.
  2. wagamichi is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 1:47pm


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon McNeil
    Well... For one... most Chinese people don't do Gongfu or get any closer to it than the movies. Those who do Gong Fu have been fed this Wushu bollox which is nice and pretty (and a decent cardio workout) but has no self-defense or combat efficacy. Finally the main form of competition: San Da is done with huge freaking 16 oz gloves on - ain't nobody losing an eye doing that.

    And for some reason the guys I play with seem to think that height is the deciding factor in a fight, they keep matching me up with these tall skinny beanpoles who are half my weight because the stronger, shorter, stockier guys are about six inches shorter than me. That's the reason I'm organizing this throwdown, I haven't had a good fight since I left Canada.

    I train TCMA and I train for the ring.

    Try my Grandmaster since your in china. he is all about fighting.

    http://www.tsaiskungfu.com/imagegall...hool/index.htm
  3. AikidoDeadlines is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 1:51pm


     Style: BJJ blue

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that it is morally very dubious to have an eye-gouge or an instant death spine break as your only defense against someone who wants to take you to the ground. Even if these techniques were very high percentage moves (which I am not so sure about), I would much rather sprawl, take a dudes back, and safely put them to sleep (or even just take them down and pin them until they calm down) than RUIN THEIR VISION FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.
  4. wagamichi is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 1:57pm


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikidoDeadlines
    I think that it is morally very dubious to have an eye-gouge or an instant death spine break as your only defense against someone who wants to take you to the ground. Even if these techniques were very high percentage moves (which I am not so sure about), I would much rather sprawl, take a dudes back, and safely put them to sleep (or even just take them down and pin them until they calm down) than RUIN THEIR VISION FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.

    Good point. I think the main thing we all agree on is that a fighting system should be well rounded. Having only one answer to a whole method of fighting is like putting your eggs in a nail lined basket and jummping off a house hoping not to break them. Arts, or more importantly instructors and coaches that ignore methods of fighting are doing so because they have no answers for those types of attacks.
  5. benfscott is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 2:44pm


     Style: Southern Praying Mantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikidoDeadlines
    I think that it is morally very dubious to have an eye-gouge or an instant death spine break as your only defense against someone who wants to take you to the ground. Even if these techniques were very high percentage moves (which I am not so sure about), I would much rather sprawl, take a dudes back, and safely put them to sleep (or even just take them down and pin them until they calm down) than RUIN THEIR VISION FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.

    I don't know where you live, but I'm from an absolute shithole of an area in South London. Trust me when I say that if someone is going to have a fight with you here, unfortunately morals do not come into it. There is no such thing as a fair fight here. In fact, there is very very rarely even such a thing as a one on one. And people will keep going with whatever weapons are to hand until the police turn up, which could be a long long while...

    They are not trying to just floor you, they are not going to punch you and then walk away. They are trying to cause you some serious injury, and should they achieve it, then their friends are going to take turns kicking you in the head. As has happened a couple of years ago to my best friend.

    I have been bottled, threatened with machetes and other knives, guns, seen the guy next to me in a pub lose half his face to a beer glass smashed in it, all because he didn't move out of some guy's way. Experience tells me morality should be reserved for the ring or the classroom.

    I am not in any way a violent person, and will always do my utmost to avoid a confrontation if I can, but if you know you can't avoid a fight, hit first, hit hard and make his mates get the message that you are not in any way someone to be fucked with, and doubly make sure the c**t thinks twice before he starts on someone else.

    If I feel I am not in danger I won't fight. But if I am, I have absolutely no compunction about snapping someone's arm, sticking my thumb in someone's eye or just doing what I have to to ensure my safety, before getting the hell out ASAP. I don't see any moral ambiguity in these situations.

    I'll reuse the example I used previously, that I was attacked out of the blue at 3am from behind by a bigger guy than me, and I'm 6'4". I don't know anything about this guy and whether he's about to murder/mug/rape/whatever me. Anyway, ended up being dragged down and so I did the thumb in the eye thing which made him very very quickly forget about fighting me. I got up, and swift kick in the balls to my assailant later I was on my way, whereas if i'd played by the rules I would have been in big big trouble - possibly wouldn't be here now.
  6. benfscott is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 2:47pm


     Style: Southern Praying Mantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wagamichi
    Good point. I think the main thing we all agree on is that a fighting system should be well rounded. Having only one answer to a whole method of fighting is like putting your eggs in a nail lined basket and jummping off a house hoping not to break them. Arts, or more importantly instructors and coaches that ignore methods of fighting are doing so because they have no answers for those types of attacks.
    well said that man.
  7. EternalRage is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 3:35pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikidoDeadlines
    I think that it is morally very dubious to have an eye-gouge or an instant death spine break as your only defense against someone who wants to take you to the ground. Even if these techniques were very high percentage moves (which I am not so sure about), I would much rather sprawl, take a dudes back, and safely put them to sleep (or even just take them down and pin them until they calm down) than RUIN THEIR VISION FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.
    This brings up a relatively minor point. Although those "killer techniques" are devastating in terms of permanent damage, not all of us live in crazy ghettos where the difference between an eye gouge and side kick will determine whether we live. Especially for us college kids and suburbians, poking someone's eye out vs submission holds or just plain striking can determine whether we spend the next several years in jail.

    "Premeditation" is what they call fighting done by a trained individual. If your opponent gets a half decent lawyer, they can sue the pants off you. Albeit, your safety and the safety of those who are with you at the time of the attack is of utmost importance, so it comes down to a question of "be judged by twelve or carried by six", in which case being well rounded and having a full arsenal of techniques will make your split second decisions that much wiser.
  8. benfscott is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 4:08pm


     Style: Southern Praying Mantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think they're quite so litigous over here yet, although it's only a matter of time. In fact I'd say it was morally dubious to start a fight, lose it and then sue over the result! lol

    I take your point though, and I have often been able to control a situation by grabbing someone with a tiger claw or even talking a situation down but your 'judged or carried' analogy I think puts things in perspective. My take on it is if you don't know, then fear the worse. I salute you master Yoda for your continued wise words.
  9. Simon McNeil is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2006 1:58am


     Style: Hei Long Gong Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wagamichi
    Try my Grandmaster since your in china. he is all about fighting.

    http://www.tsaiskungfu.com/imagegall...hool/index.htm

    Where? China is a big place, I'm in Shanxi. If he's in Taiyuan or Datong I'd probably be able to swing by but if he's in Guangdong that would be like driving to Florida to take lessons while living in Ontairo.

    Ok, I looked at the website and Shandong is hella far from me.

    I don't think there are no good fighters in China. I just think that with 1.5 billion people who are mostly not interested in fighting in the least there are a lot of folks to hide the good fighters among.
    Last edited by Simon McNeil; 2/13/2006 2:02am at .
  10. I aint punchy!? is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2006 11:36pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't this whole thread null and void cos no one could actually post what Wong Shun Leung was meant to have said in the first place?

    PS: Boxing is simple to defeat using Wing Chun. Most of the world's best boxers are WCers.
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