222229 Bullies, 4469 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 21 to 30 of 33
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 123 4 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,577

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 5:11pm


     Style: -

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    rules or technique-based?
    Techniques. Throws, locks, pins, chokes. You will not score with some of them in BJJ, but you CAN do them.
    Now take kneebars, shoulder locks, neck cranks, ankle locks, splits. You can't do them in judo can you?

    Im not arguing better or worse, and I understand the different rulesets. BJJ ruleset is more open there's no question about it.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
      #21
  2. Tourettes is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    east coast
    Posts
    336

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 6:35pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hear what you're saying about techniques but I think the BJJ ruleset is more inclusive due to its strategy + speed of play. BJJ's not penalized(by being stood up/reset) for waiting for an opportunity to apply a submission or gain points by taking a more dominate position. There just isn't the frenzy on the ground that you see in judo matches where players know they have limited time. It seems you can be more passive and opportunistic in BJJ whereas you work like hell on the ground in judo(as well as standing) to not be penalized.

    Older judo competitions did allow many of the techniques you've listed. Are classic judo rules better than current - maybe, but I don't want to test that **** out as I have a hard enough time moving these days with only the techniques that are left. And you can pull neckcranks, shoulder locks and other stuff as long as you know how to not get caught.

    If BJJ is so inclusive with techniques, why aren't they inclusive with rules? Why you can't win BJJ matches with a pin? Works in Judo and Sambo, why not BJJ? How would including winning with pins effect the BJJ strategy + speed of play?
      #22
  3. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,577

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 6:44pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    And you can pull neckcranks, shoulder locks and other stuff as long as you know how to not get caught.
    That's not the point.
    If BJJ is so inclusive with techniques, why aren't they inclusive with rules? Why you can't win BJJ matches with a pin? Works in Judo and Sambo, why not BJJ?
    Because the person that you pin may not be giving up.

    Listen, you are defensive. I'm not arguing good or bad. I'm a judoplayer damit!

    :)

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
      #23
  4. Tourettes is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    east coast
    Posts
    336

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 6:56pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by drummerboy
    That's not the point.


    Because the person that you pin may not be giving up.

    Listen, you are defensive. I'm not arguing good or bad. I'm a judoplayer damit!

    :)

    Tomas
    So before i confuse myself further - is your point that bjj contains all of judo's techniques or allows them?

    Not so defensive in that I'm having fun attempting to argue with you - not doing a good job but it seems to be all about the aggression here these days.
      #24
  5. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,577

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 7:04pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    So before i confuse myself further - is your point that bjj contains all of judo's techniques or allows them?

    Not so defensive in that I'm having fun attempting to argue with you - not doing a good job but it seems to be all about the aggression here these days.
    It allows them. Forget scoring. Just consider things being legal or ilegal.

    And on your last point, adding the word "fucktard" will always strenghten an argument and can only be succesfully countered by the word "shitrat".

    :XXsunsmil

    I'm off to judo

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
      #25
  6. Tourettes is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    east coast
    Posts
    336

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 7:08pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gotcha, ya shitrat fucktard with entirely too much logic.

    have a good + safe practice. I popped my mensiscus a few weeks ago and am out for another 6 weeks with PT.

    peace
      #26
  7. MuKen is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    163

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 8:08pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't understand the point of this, if new moves have evolved since BJJ came about that means nothing, and doesn't prove anything about whether or not BJJ is 'basically just judo'. Arts evolve with time, whether or not they are the same art is just meaningless semantics. BJJ came from Judo, nobody denies this, and Judo came from Judo too. Current Judo is not the Judo from which BJJ came, because it too has evolved with time. Guess what? Everything fucking evolves, to better suit the changing circumstances in which they are trained. BJJ and Judo are sibling arts, both derived from a parent art which happens to share a name with Judo. They are the 'same' and they are 'different'. People continuing to argue either side of this are stupid.
      #27
  8. Cassius is online now
    Cassius's Avatar

    Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,969

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 8:33pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by drummerboy
    I think the point is that you can take any judo tech and apply it without modification in a BJJ match. And that there's many BJJ techs that would be illegal in judo.
    That really was all I was getting at.

    I happen to like the open ruleset of BJJ. I'm currently taking University Judo (and if you're reading my training log, are probably getting a sense that I'm not getting a whole lot out of it), and wouldn't mind picking up rank in Judo when I have time, but I'm always going to come back to the open rulesets of BJJ and subgrappling. I don't know if I would call them better, but I like them more. I'm sure there are plenty of people that are the exact opposite. I would encourage these people to sharpen their ground games with BJJ.

    BJJ and Judo are not the same thing anymore. BJJ evolved from Judo and JJJ, but it is clearly it's own entity at this point. We'll borrow, beg, or steal anything that works. No one seems to be very sure of what exactly Maeda taught the Gracies, so I don't know if we're ever really going to know if BJJ ever was Basically Just Judo.

    Regardless, their focuses are complimentary, and anyone that can't see that can suck it.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
      #28
  9. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,577

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 11:37pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MuKen
    I don't understand the point of this, if new moves have evolved since BJJ came about that means nothing, and doesn't prove anything about whether or not BJJ is 'basically just judo'. Arts evolve with time, whether or not they are the same art is just meaningless semantics. BJJ came from Judo, nobody denies this, and Judo came from Judo too. Current Judo is not the Judo from which BJJ came, because it too has evolved with time. Guess what? Everything fucking evolves, to better suit the changing circumstances in which they are trained. BJJ and Judo are sibling arts, both derived from a parent art which happens to share a name with Judo. They are the 'same' and they are 'different'. People continuing to argue either side of this are stupid.
    I don't think anybody here argues with the above. As a matter of fact there seem to be very little disagreement in this thread.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
      #29
  10. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,577

    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 11:53pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like the open ruleset too.
    But there is a good reason to like the Judo ruleset, or at least find it useful.
    Isolation. BJJ standup game is quite simple and effective. You can guardjump or butscoot your way to victory in almost any situation. So you don't really NEED throws in the open ruleset. But throws are still useful and effective, you can achieve your dominant position straight from standing, without going through the guard (and I know there's an argument hanging here re guard is a dominant position) and sweeps or passes. And one way to sharpen your throws is to isolate the throwing part, or at least change the rules to weigh the throws more.

    Of course this will lead to people playing the rules. Turtling, rolling ippons with your back taken, etc etc. But if one is willing, one can reap the benefit from it.

    And I'd like to congratulate everybody on this thread that in spite of Hedges inflamatory post we have made it into a good discussion.

    Tomas


    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    That really was all I was getting at.

    I happen to like the open ruleset of BJJ. I'm currently taking University Judo (and if you're reading my training log, are probably getting a sense that I'm not getting a whole lot out of it), and wouldn't mind picking up rank in Judo when I have time, but I'm always going to come back to the open rulesets of BJJ and subgrappling. I don't know if I would call them better, but I like them more. I'm sure there are plenty of people that are the exact opposite. I would encourage these people to sharpen their ground games with BJJ.

    BJJ and Judo are not the same thing anymore. BJJ evolved from Judo and JJJ, but it is clearly it's own entity at this point. We'll borrow, beg, or steal anything that works. No one seems to be very sure of what exactly Maeda taught the Gracies, so I don't know if we're ever really going to know if BJJ ever was Basically Just Judo.

    Regardless, their focuses are complimentary, and anyone that can't see that can suck it.
    Last edited by dramaboy; 2/10/2006 11:55pm at .
    Current stage of death: denial
      #30
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 123 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.