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View Poll Results: Do the ulterior motives of the poster affect the validity of bullshido claim(s)?

Voters
111. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, it makes no difference.

    14 12.61%
  • No, but they sure could be a lot more polite.

    5 4.50%
  • No, but their posts require a tiny bit more scrutiny.

    10 9.01%
  • No, but their posts require A LOT more scrutiny.

    36 32.43%
  • Maybe, I mean if the poster is really a horse's ass or something.

    12 10.81%
  • Probably. All vendettas are automatically viewed suspicsiously

    25 22.52%
  • Yes, it invalids most everything a poster says.

    4 3.60%
  • All of the above.

    3 2.70%
  • None of the above.

    3 2.70%
  • The Seahawks were robbed. :smile:

    24 21.62%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 5:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by greese1
    Yeah, we form vendettas against people on this site if that is the word we are going to use, for being bullshido.

    There is and should be a bias against being bullshido. If you don't like that please leave.
    Anthony's case could have gotten off to a better start if he had all the evidence before starting the flamewar of 2006.But the only thing Anthony can be blamed for NOW is that he should try ,in the future,to think things through before teasing everyone with information that as far as I know that he was the only that new.
    Last edited by CanucKyokushin; 2/09/2006 6:21pm at .
  2. eyebeams is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 6:05pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    Photo evidence > Any vendetta on the part of the presenter
    Time and time again, threads have proven that stills are the worst way to assess what's going on. Do a search for pics associated with the phrase "keep your hands up."

    This is pretty fucking stupid. It took all this idiocy to just come out with:

    1) JFS threatened some people.
    2) JFS falsely claimed to know BJJ.

    Instead of settling this with one locked post and banning JFS for the threats, we have this lame noise.

    Everything else about this clusterfuck is inconclusive or irrelevant. Claiming to be a pankraton instructor is irrelevant, because there's no such thing as "real" pankraton anyway. Photo by photo analysis is stupid, because there is no context to be had from any unbiased source.

    The sad thing is that while I think that admins were within their rights to deal with this business, they handled it in the worst way possible. Instead of presenting the best evidence (claims out of JFS' mouth that don't jibe), you presented pictures in an extremely stupid way. You claimed that publically available web content was "confidential information."

    Just give this **** to Sam Browning next time.
  3. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 6:30pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a question.

    What happens to JFS USA now? It seems that nothing will happen to him in terms of backlash. If Phil Elmore posted here again he'd be ridiculed by everyone obviously, but it seems that wouldn't quite be the case with JFS.
  4. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 6:56pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    Incorrect. Look at the photos objectively and not with JFS' cock in your mouth. Is that not grappling? Not only is it grappling, but it contains THE classic grappling defenses.
    I hear Royce advocates giving your back to larger, stronger guys. Here's T3h Ph0to 3vid3nce:

    http://bjj.org/susumu/ufc-book/royce-vs-kimo.jpg

    There are some pictures of some guys either in, partway in or partway out of grappling positions. There's a picture of JFS with his elbow on a guy's back that is either an elbow strike, an elbow to overhook, or something else which, at some point, involved JFS being in that position.

    And catch wrestling and pankration, all the while disavowing all grappling knowledge on here to wiggle out of his obvious bullshido teachings.
    No, he said he knew catch wrestling here. Pankraton is a meaningless term when applied to anything outside of Ancient Greek history. It's a brand name.

    Bullshido *never* did a background check on JFS' exposure to wrestling, despite the fact that he named where and when on a couple of different threads. You were too lazy to get the job done properly, and you reaped the ass-harvest that you sowed.

    I don't have any interest in defending JFS. I don't even *like* JFS. I appreciated some of his kung fu-related posts, but I don't care for THE BEAST and all the asociated folktale bullshit. I have an interest in useful discussion -- and better yet, smething positive actually coming out of this clusterfuck.
  5. Doctor Shaft is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 6:59pm


     Style: TSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eh, I forsee nothing happening to anyone from all of this mudslinging. Hell, I couldn't even figure out why there was suddenly an investigation done in the first place. JFS was known for having a "bad boy" internet persona. Sometimes he would inflate things or say things to stir the pot. I suppose, somewhere in there, that threats were made as well.

    But at this point, everything has just spiraled into a big muck war. We hear that he threatened some people. Okay... all I see are still shot pictures that aren't supposed to be grappling, but are grappling, but aren't grappling. But again, still shots are hardly useful, especially when they are just amateur photos of a session taking place.

    If someone claims that JFS was teaching something "wrong," I'm merely shrugging my shoulders at this point. JFS didn't run away from such claims, and in the process made no attempt to tell people that he was t3h r34l grapple. If you caught him teaching faulty or useless stuff... okay, we all know about it now. But the way it was presented to all of bullshido.com was both sudden and... well all I could think of was FEUD throughout the whole thing. So, as a reader, I didn't put too much stock in this event. I only wondered why we were so completely focused on it, to the point of creating a 50+ page thread.

    I don't care about JFS on this matter. I have no desire to go seek him out and meet him in person. I don't talk to him. I wouldn't put it past ANYONE on Bullshido to have taught or espoused "bullshido" at one time or another, even in 2006. If someone one day says, "OMG, Asia taught bullshido!" I wouldn't flip out and lose all faith in this website. We make our arguments, people argue about it for a bit, and so long as each side stays reasonable, we move on.

    That being said, I don't mind that someone decides to say that JFS is pulling bullshido. But this investigation just wreaked of "I don't like you anymore!" That's fine for you, personally, but it's not good for the rest of us who have NO CLUE what's really going on.
  6. GreenHornet is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 7:02pm


     Style: BJJ Gi and noGi,MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    when JFS USA started to post here I thought he was quite annoying and he is using vulgarity to a high that the profanity he used became meaningless after a while.
    but now I think its all right
    plus if he is really as a good CMAist as he is a trash talker then I think his presence here is acceptable.
  7. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 7:15pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    JFS is not a catch wrestler. He has no business claiming it ANYWHERE.
    See, this is better. Instead of what we got, how about actually challenging him on this? JFS claimed he learned "catch by any other name" from an army wrestling team when he was in the service. This is all easily verifiable stuff. What were these guys' names? What base? What time?

    The BJJ claim is even easier, since there weren't a lot of BJJ guys in the early 90s.

    The fact is that bouncing burden of proof back and forth ends up being less useful than taking up at least *part* of the burden yourself.

    If there's going to be a serious assault on somebody's claims, then I'd like to see it done that way. If it's not worth it, then I don't think it's worth the traffic, frankly.

    Yes, Royce gave his back to a larger, stronger guy. You've got the pics. It happened. I don't doubt that. Whether Royce ADVOCATES it is an issue of intent which can not be decided by pics. That he did it can.
    *Ding!*
  8. Jitsuman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 7:30pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm geussing JFS got banned?

    Figured he'd have come out of the woodwork about this by now...

    (or perhaps to feed on human flesh, burn the world, or whatever other crazy **** he claims to be into)
  9. Pandinha is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 7:32pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jitsuman
    I'm geussing JFS got banned?

    Figured he'd have come out of the woodwork about this by now...

    (or perhaps to feed on human flesh, burn the world, or whatever other crazy **** he claims to be into)
    No, JFS USA is not banned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  10. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 7:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    Anthony's case could have gotten off to a better start if he had all the evidence before starting the flamewar of 2006.But the only thing Anthony can be blamed for NOW is that he should try ,in the future,to think things through before teasing everyone with information that as far as I know that he was the only that new.
    My complaint as well.
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