View Poll Results: If an art has any sub-optimal components is that art bullshido?

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  • Yes.

    4 4.12%
  • No.

    23 23.71%
  • Teachers should warn students of the lack of depth in the specific area.

    70 72.16%
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  1. #71

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will rephrase my point.
    Having to fight outside a sportive environment is not a matter of fantasy for some professions, hence I disagree with the dismissal of applying combatives in real life situations.

  2. #72
    GIJoe6186's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katagelan
    I will rephrase my point.
    Having to fight outside a sportive environment is not a matter of fantasy for some professions, hence I disagree with the dismissal of applying combatives in real life situations.
    Well here what I have to say about combatives vs sportive. First lets not get confused. When you say sportive we are talking about practicing under MMA type rules. When we say combatives we are talking about move that are illegal in MMA and can only be used in an actual fight. If this is what you mean then good if not tell me.

    So now we have 2 training methods one is sportive and the other is combative. Under sportive conditions you can train full force testing what you have learned against a resisting opponent. Rules are followed but still a punch to the chin is a very good way to end a fight as is a choke or any lock that you use to break joints. I dont think anyone would argue that knocking someone out, making them pass out or breaking their bones is a bad way to fight. Combative training focuses on training that is not applicable to MMA such as eye gouging, nut crushing or hair pulling. The training is usually done on willing partners providing very little resistance because of the nature of the technique. To their benefit though they may use bags and BOBs.

    If a person really wants to apply the combative aspects of fighting into his skill set he should then practice the sportive type(MMA). WHAT?!?!? MMA will teach you to hit live resisting opponents within the confines of the rulset. You will also learn to apply crippling chokes and locks on other people. Then once you learn the sportive type which is very well suited for self defense then you can choose to add in the other type of training in. If you are used to hitting people in the head who are moving and resisting it is not that hard to change your target to the throat or kick to the groin in an actual fight. The same applies to the ground. You learn to use your grappling skills and not tricks to dominate the ground. Then you will be in a much better position to attack with dirty tricks or combatives.

  3. #73
    JohnnyCache's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GIJoe: Thank you for that inarticulate restatement of our position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katagelan
    I will rephrase my point.
    Having to fight outside a sportive environment is not a matter of fantasy for some professions, hence I disagree with the dismissal of applying combatives in real life situations.
    MMA style training is great for controlling and restraining people in environments like bouncing. I've never been a prison guard, but I'd imagine tools, restraints, and backup are bigger factors in those encounters then formal training. Again, I'd think if martial arts training was something a prison guard spent his time on, he'd want it to be intense full contact training.


  4. #74
    GIJoe6186's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JohnnyCache thank you for giving me Mumia I have always been looking for this free Mumia but thank you for leading me to him.
    Also bouncers I know did BJJ. They couldnt use combatives stuff because they would get sued if they gouged out the eyes of every drunk.

  5. #75

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dont see it that way.
    But please let us not enter into a vocabulary debate in what is not my mother tongue :englishmo
    In kyokushin we adapted what you call combatives to sportive sparring, some of us actually entering MT contests or training as a way to get that feeling of having an unresisting partner you talk about.
    So it is not about changing techniques to adapt to real fights, but rather the other way around.
    For example we did a lot of kin geri (should fall in your combative category, it is a kick to the balls) but had to remember not to do it in sparring.

    The use of the techniques in the context of a profession means that real life fights do not occur only with the MA practitioner as a victim taken by surprise and surviving thanks to having entertained fantasy scenarios.
    In that context, many fights end on the ground, but with the "winner" still standing.
    As to the suing thing, the american "sue-me-to-hell" situation is not prevalent everywhere , though I admit things are changing, and I have (seen) messed up people without legal consequence.

  6. #76
    and good morning to you too supporting member
    PirateJon's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is why polls should auto close after 30 days...
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

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