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View Poll Results: If an art has any sub-optimal components is that art bullshido?

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  • Yes.

    4 4.12%
  • No.

    23 23.71%
  • Teachers should warn students of the lack of depth in the specific area.

    70 72.16%
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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2006 12:47pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    Well done Phrost. I will be do the same with arts I have trained in.

    Japanese Jujutsu
    -Striking: 4 (mainly used to set up throws)
    -Grappling: 7 (lacks extensive ground work)
    - Weapons: 10 (A real school will include kenjutsu, sojutsu, kusarijutsu, etc.)

    Ninpo
    -Striking: 6 (good strikes, but just enough to get away)
    -Grappling: 1 (if you are grappling, you aren't running away)
    -Weapons: 7 (Ningu aren't as Powerful as the Bujutsu weapons, but can be fairly nasty)

    Aikido
    - Striking: 0 (No striking)
    - Grappling: 4 (Throws/locks w/o any follow up ground work)
    - Weapons: 2 (They try to do Kenjutsu, they really try)

    TKD (WTF)
    -Striking: 6 (lacks good punching)
    - Grappling: 0 (no grappling)
    - Weapons: 1 (they twirl some kobudo weapons, no application)

    BJJ (Pedro Sauer)
    -Striking: 3 (Knees/elbows/GnP from mount, thats it)
    -Grappling: 9 (Lacks a bit on takedowns)
    -Weapons: 0 (no weapons work)
    Okay, this is where I'll disagree (wow that's new)
    JJ has a broader range of grappling vs striking you should be more specific.
    Aikido has some striking so I would at least give it a 1
    TKD should only be a 4 because the really only utilize 4 kicks in variation and rarely with power.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2006 12:48pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know, come to think about it you should make a chart like this for all the arts and put it up on it's own page.
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2006 12:50pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was what I was thinking. I'll start a new thread in the BBC about it.
  4. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2006 12:57pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I thought about including the boxing clinch, but it's pretty crappy as far as real grappling goes.

    And you can't count "dirty boxing" as it's not a primary feature of Boxing as much as a set of tricks to be used here and there. 8 is way too high for an art that only features one form of striking (punching) and doesn't even include backfists, hammerfists, etc. You must think kicking/knees/etc are only worth 2 points.

    Try to stay objective. You are not your Martial Art.
    Just differing opinions. From what I've seen I'd say over 75% of striking and probably more like 90% of striking in any MMA match (ufc/k1/pride/other) is straight up boxing. 6 seems a might low given that.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  5. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2006 1:03pm

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by omega
    JJ has a broader range of grappling vs striking you should be more specific.
    I know. That was the hardest one to classify. More acurately that was a description of Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu. There are Japanese Bujutsu schools like Koto Ryu or Shinden Fudo Ryu which employ "Ikken Hissatsu" losely translated as "1 hit to kill".

    So let me rephrase that

    Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu (Same as before)
    Striking: 4
    Grappling: 7
    Weapons: 10

    Koto Ryu Koppojutsu
    Striking: 9 (its just brutal)
    Grappling: 3 (throws and locks, but not primary focus)
    Weapons: 8 (Sword, Shaken)

    Quote Originally Posted by omega
    Aikido has some striking so I would at least give it a 1
    Depends on the Aikido School. The one I trained at employ 0 strikes in defense and the striking for attack was more a "intimate an attack" rather then attacking.


    Quote Originally Posted by omega
    TKD should only be a 4 because the really only utilize 4 kicks in variation and rarely with power.
    I gave it a 6 because the WTF school I trained at, did train you to keep you hands up. Also they did Knife hand, jab and cross. This was used in sparring too.


    The problem is doing it this way as some arts vary from school to school. I know a few Japanese Jujutsu school that I give the Aikido rating too. Also there are a load of NinpoTaijutsu (Bujinkan) which I give a S: 1 (never make contact) G: 2 (never spar, too deadly) W:2 (widely swing weapon without knowing how to use it).
  6. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2006 1:08pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJon
    Just differing opinions. From what I've seen I'd say over 75% of striking and probably more like 90% of striking in any MMA match (ufc/k1/pride/other) is straight up boxing. 6 seems a might low given that.
    I see your point. I'd put American Kickboxing more at a 7 though, because it includes backfists, but there's a lot of room for discussion on the subject for sure.

    Thread up in the BBC.
  7. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 5:08pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheManchu
    Now you're being argumentative about nothing because your original "reading comprehension" crack turned out to be wrong. If someone declares you the winner, do you get some sort of sad little internet trophy out of this?

    The weapons crack was fucking stupid because weapons fighting is not a component of any of those martial arts. It's like saying spoons are suboptimal because they don't work well for cutting steak, or training in football is suboptimal because it neglects slam dunks. Training in muay thai or boxing or kung fu or WHATEVER for self defense is a crock of ****.
  8. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 5:11pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Training in muay thai or boxing or kung fu or WHATEVER for self defense is a crock of ****."

    Oh come on. I think that's a bit too far. Training a decent MA most definitely aids your chances in self-defence.

    Someone with no training gets jumped and haymakered - they freak out, panic, get hit more and more and more.

    Someone who's done boxing/muay thai etc gets jumped and haymakered - they react by covering and then unleashing some fucking hard punches.

    You can't really believe that learning a good art is of no use in self-defence.
  9. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 5:18pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose
    "Training in muay thai or boxing or kung fu or WHATEVER for self defense is a crock of ****."

    Oh come on. I think that's a bit too far. Training a decent MA most definitely aids your chances in self-defence.

    Someone with no training gets jumped and haymakered - they freak out, panic, get hit more and more and more.

    Someone who's done boxing/muay thai etc gets jumped and haymakered - they react by covering and then unleashing some fucking hard punches.

    You can't really believe that learning a good art is of no use in self-defence.
    I'm not saying that training in H2H combat will have no value towards a self defense situation. I'm saying that if that's your reason for training, you need to get with reality because your living in a goddamn chop socky film. If you're that concerned about getting jumped, move to a new area, buy a gun/tazer/pepper spray/ whatever... or go ahead and keep being a fucking LARPER.
  10. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2006 5:28pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aaah, apologies. Misunderstood what you were getting at.
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