View Poll Results: If an art has any sub-optimal components is that art bullshido?

Voters
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  • Yes.

    4 4.12%
  • No.

    23 23.71%
  • Teachers should warn students of the lack of depth in the specific area.

    70 72.16%
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  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    696
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If there are working elements in the art that allow students to consistently win fights against other trained fighters, then the art is not bullshido. It may not be optimal in all situations or against all fighters. In fact, one should expect this to be true. Most things in life that are designed to work under a wide array of conditions never work real well in any of them. Conversely, most things that work really well under one set of conditions aren't very flexible in dealing with widely varying scenarios. Find something that works and makes you happy. Period.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    126
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If a teacher/instructor advertises self-defense and really cares about their students well-being, they should advise their students on the weaknesses of their system. However, it seems that marketing is the primary goal and too many instructors come off as salesmen.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,750
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Ask Rorian what the other way might be regarding BJJ, not me. :smile:


    Perhaps it is a matter of semantics. An art which recognizes its incompleteness makes it more complete. Or, maybe that's zen. LOL.


    Anyway, I personally see a distinct difference between cross-checking (or cross-testing) and cross-training. That's a philosophical discussion for another thread and another day, though.

    Take care, Anthony.
    LOL, thanks Tom! I'll remember that Zen quote. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    588
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    none of the styles I do have anything suboptimal about them, so I vote bullshido on all that other bullshit.
    Other than bjj elbows, the muay thai arm locks, and the lightning fast kicks of boxing, your statement is very useful in a "I didn't understand the words I was reading" sort of way.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Kansas
    Posts
    588
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Officially, KageKaze beat me to the mocking.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Camp Hill PA
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    287
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Nothings Perfect

    One, I'm glad the majority of people here say that an instructor should tell students about any "Weak Links" in the style.

    Two, define "sub-optimal". Is that to say "won't work in a ring/octagon", "won't work on the street".

    Three, I think all MA's have some "suboptimal elements", it's up to the student to find them and try as best they can to "fill the holes".

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Camp Hill PA
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    287
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    Less effective than it could be I assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dralion
    Three, I think all MA's have some "suboptimal elements", it's up to the student to find them and try as best they can to "fill the holes".
    No its not. Its up to the students to go crosstrain in another style, completing his game. Filling up the holes in your game with poor imitations of another style is like putting in a screen to stop the draft.
    I'll buy point 2. But who's to say what it "could be". Yes, I'm playing "Devils Advocate" a bit here.

    But arent we saying the same thing on point 3. Isn't one way to "Fill The Holes" by crosstraining in another style?

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    163
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be fair, there's plenty of snagging single techniques from other styles going on, esp. in the BJJ world...

  9. #19

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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Camp Hill PA
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    287
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    No, when you crosstrain properly the other style IS your style. thats different from running to the nearest thai school to gain a new roundhouse and thats it.
    I'd think if you crosstrain, you'd at least have a "Primary Style"

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,437
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dralion

    Two, define "sub-optimal".
    See my post in the other "sub-optimal" thread, which was banished to YMAIS despite being only half as idiotic as this thread.

    If a technique not as good as it's supposed to be *for the situation it's supposed to be usede for*, than it's sub-optimal.

    Royce used lame side kicks to set up good takedowns in early UFCs. these were not sub-obtimal techniques. But using them in a kickboxing match would have been quite sub-optimal.
    Last edited by eyebeams; 2/10/2006 11:23pm at .

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