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View Poll Results: If an art has any sub-optimal components is that art bullshido?

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  • Yes.

    4 4.12%
  • No.

    23 23.71%
  • Teachers should warn students of the lack of depth in the specific area.

    70 72.16%
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  1. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 4:30pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    If an art has any sub-optimal components is that art bullshido?

    Both judo and bjj contain and teach a form of striking which is very limited and doesn't compare to MT/Boxing/Krotty.

    Many TMA systems contain and teach a form of ground work that's not complete and doesn't compare to bjj/judo.


    Is it advisable to learn those sub-optimal techniques or not?
    Does containing these sub-optimal peices make those arts bullshido?
    Does teaching people the sub-optimal portions of those arts make an instructor bullshido?
    Why or why not?
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  2. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 4:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    None of your comedy options are funny.
  3. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 4:34pm

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     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another thread?

    No it doesn't. Claiming that your art includes something it doesn't is bullshido.

    If you art doesn't have striking or grappling, is it advisable to supplement and become well rounded. Yes.

    As I said on your other thread. Most modern MA (Judo/BJJ/Karate/TKD) doesn't include using weapons. Does that make them all Bullshido? No.

    You can always find something an art is missing.
  4. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 4:36pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    None of your comedy options are funny.
    BJJ WINS AGAIN!
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  5. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 4:55pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It would only be Bullshido if, within the art's training, there is no way to objectively validate and crosscheck the sub-optimal components to surpass the depth of knowledge the teacher is attempting to convey. Although cross-training may be one way to do this, it is not the only way.
  6. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 5:08pm

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     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    It would only be Bullshido if, within the art's training, there is no way to objectively validate and crosscheck the sub-optimal components to surpass the depth of knowledge the teacher is attempting to convey. Although cross-training may be one way to do this, it is not the only way.
    BJJ is not a complete art. It is why you will find practioners training in Boxing or Muay Thai for standup/striking.

    What is the other way Tom?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 5:14pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    BJJ is not a complete art. It is why you will find practioners training in Boxing or Muay Thai for standup/striking.

    What is the other way Tom?

    Ask Rorian what the other way might be regarding BJJ, not me. :smile:


    Perhaps it is a matter of semantics. An art which recognizes its incompleteness makes it more complete. Or, maybe that's zen. LOL.


    Anyway, I personally see a distinct difference between cross-checking (or cross-testing) and cross-training. That's a philosophical discussion for another thread and another day, though.

    Take care, Anthony.
  8. CanucKyokushin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 5:51pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only problem with Kyokushin as i see it is that we're taught to do these silly hand grabs.There's only 2 reasons around the world students are taught these.At best it shows karate as teaching it's students that they do have other options besides smahing their fist into the other guy's mouth.At worst it basic Aikido.

    IE.If I'm standing in a bar having a drink, no one is gonna walk right up to me grab my right hand with his right then I can get him into a wristlock.It works but it so unrealistic to it will never happen to me in my life time.

    When I think of all the things we could learn.

    Well anyway my point is that wristlocks are lame.But does it make the art bullshido?No.Just the stupid wristlocks stuff we have to learn.
  9. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 5:59pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    none of the styles I do have anything suboptimal about them, so I vote bullshido on all that other bullshit.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  10. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2006 6:37pm

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     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    none of the styles I do have anything suboptimal about them, so I vote bullshido on all that other bullshit.

    We all know Muay Thai, Boxing, and BJJ are the best weapons art are around. Nothing suboptimal about that :)
    Last edited by Plasma; 2/09/2006 6:47pm at .
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