Ranked in one art, teaching a different art.

[Julian D]

Hey there,

Am I a fundamentalist and extremist, almost-terrorist martial arts believer or does the following deserve to be called bullshido?

Karate instructor (6th dan) and his brother (5th dan) and one of their sensei (don´t know dan) from another country -not Asian nor American- found an international federation. Members are, of course, just they. One of them is the 'Steve Doe, international director of Doe international kai', the other is "John Doe, national representative of Doe international kai" (no kidding, they named the kai after themselves. Not even their sensei).

Now, these brothers take eight regular classes of iaido with a ZNKR 4th dan, and a couple of months later they advertise themselves as iaido sensei... "Iaido classes taught by John Doe sensei, 6th dan".

Semantically speaking, he is a 6th dan. But isn´t it ilegitimate if he doesn´t make it clear that his dan is in a different unrelated art? Or am I crazy?

I know that he has no instruction and is a complete fake, but some people still defend him.

PS: He got in trouble when was asked who he had learnt iaido from and said 'XYZ, 4th dan' and that man found out... but it didn´t stop Mr Smarty McBlackBelt and sibling from putting up crappy videos to sale, taking some students, etc. Unfortunately almost no-one knows about iaido, and when they see a katana they just flip and lose their mind as if Angelina Jolie had flashed her boobs at them :(

[FictionPimp]

I know one aikido bokken kata. I could say I know the sword but that would be a lie. I think that is the the same as what they are doing. Knowing something and knowing it well enough to teach it are two different things. You are right in calling that bullshido.

[Baator-Steel]

Its pretty common. Ive seen 5th dan's in Shaolin-Do start teaching other arts then claim the same rank in it before. Krav maga take a few weeks and they give you a instructors certificate. This is all fairly common in the bigger chains.

How many places claim to teach at least 4 arts and the instructor claims to be a master in all of them.
Its BS but what can you do.

[Plasma]

Definately right on calling Bullshido on that.

I see that all the time. Karate "Masters" has a high enough rank in there unarmed kata art and suddenly believe they know how to use a weapon. We have a guy across the street from us, that does that. He finally stopped teaching wakazashi after he stabbed himself with it.....twice.


However, I believe one the Japanese Federations back in the 60s put together 10 Iaido Katas and put them out as the "basics of Iaido". Many Karate masters learned these and teach them at there school. There is no rank or licences in these kata (from my knowledge). Maybe thats what happened here.

Where is this guy's school?

[ArmchairNinja]

Even though he's not really lying (he doesn't claim to be 6th dan in iaido), he's deliberately misleading people and obviously not qualified to teach it. Hence bullshido. Btw is that MJER in your style field Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu?

[hl1978]

Definately right on calling Bullshido on that.

I see that all the time. Karate "Masters" has a high enough rank in there unarmed kata art and suddenly believe they know how to use a weapon. We have a guy across the street from us, that does that. He finally stopped teaching wakazashi after he stabbed himself with it.....twice.


However, I believe one the Japanese Federations back in the 60s put together 10 Iaido Katas and put them out as the "basics of Iaido". Many Karate masters learned these and teach them at there school. There is no rank or licences in these kata (from my knowledge). Maybe thats what happened here.

Where is this guy's school?

I believe you are referring to seitei iaido (which as of a few years ago, now number 12 kata) as taught by znkr. As I recall these kata were grouped together for kendo students to have a better understanding of using a real (or in this case blunted) sword . Actually the all US kendo federation does issue rank in seitei iaido (I'm ranked myself). Dan ranks require a demonstration of both seitai and koryu.

Despite being a MJER practicioner, my certificate says in japanese that I am merely ranked in iaido (people from various koryu styles take their exams together amongst panels made up of different stylists) with no mention of why koryu. Other koryu do their ranks differently, but most muso jikiden eishin ryu and muso shiden people (the two most common styles) are ranked in this manner.

Seitei kata actually come from a bunch of different styles. Interestingly enough, most students learn the seitei kata first and then have to learn a similar kata with a different focus via their koryu. It can be difficult to keep the movements separate as the saya is positioned differently, sheathing is preformed differently, and the cuts are preformed differenetly.

When I teach, I list my ranks separately.

In isshinryu, you usually see people recieve a separate ranking for your weapons in "ryukyu kobudo."

[Plasma]

I believe you are referring to seitei iaido (which as of a few years ago, now number 12 kata) as taught by znkr. As I recall these kata were grouped together for kendo students to have a better understanding of using a real (or in this case blunted) sword . Actually the all US kendo federation does issue rank in seitei iaido (I'm ranked myself). Dan ranks require a demonstration of both seitai and koryu.

Despite being a MJER practicioner, my certificate says in japanese that I am merely ranked in iaido (people from various koryu styles take their exams together amongst panels made up of different stylists). Other koryu do their ranks differently, but most muso jikiden eishin ryu and muso shiden people (the two most common styles) are ranked in this manner.

Seitei kata actually come from a bunch of different styles. Interestingly enough, most students learn the seitei kata first and then have to learn a similar kata with a different focus via their koryu. It can be difficult to keep the movements separate as the saya is positioned differently, sheathing is preformed differently, and the cuts are preformed differenetly.

When I teach, I list my ranks separately.

In isshinryu, you usually see people recieve a separate ranking for your weapons in "ryukyu kobudo."

Thanks for the information!

I thought it was the Kendo Federation, but that didn't seem right in my head, I thought I was mixing things up :)

[hl1978]

Thanks for the information!

I thought it was the Kendo Federation, but that didn't seem right in my head, I thought I was mixing things up :)

happy to help!

the znkr is the zen nihon kendo renmei, or basically all japan kendo federation. The equivlent of the all us kendo federation.

I like iaido, more kendo people should do it. It makes their techniques noticebly better, and provides a better understanding of what you are doing.

If there was ever a reason for why kata training is important, doing iaido in conjunction with kendo is it. The difference in the quality of their cuts is evident.

[bhamtsd]

Yea mixing up your qualifications/ranks is intentionally misleading.

bullshido++;

My school is bringing some guest instructors in BJJ for a weekend seminar for our students but I'm sure not going to start advertising us a BJJ dojo when it's over.

[Julian D]

Thanks for the replies guys!

This bullshido-ers live and teach in Argentina.

As was explained by hl1978, the All Japan Kendo Federation standarized a basic system of iaido kata to be taugt to kendoka, who were losing contact with what a katana is (because the shinai has a different shape, size, weight, look and feel - ergo use) and cutting (since kendoka tend to hit rather than cut). It has the standard kyu-dan grading system, and outside of Japan is regulated by the International Kendo Federation-affiliated country and regional organizations.

Its BS but what can you do

Well, there must be something to do... preferably not too excessively illegal!! I guess the day we find out what that thing is, bullshido.net will be over :D