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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 1:50am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Insane. Wow stepping it up a bit? Where you there elnyka?

    Jitsuman summed it up better than I.

    Funny thing is I said it was bad. Did you or did you not read that part or are you mad because of the word irrational?

    I'm responding to both of his posts. He did imply his Teenage daughter was an ass kicker. Why do you think the tank refference came up? Especially after describing one of the men as stocky.



    Quote Originally Posted by Agranjero
    My daughter was prepared and the guy with the green shirt got very close to take a picture, had he touched her, he would have not survived the experience unscathed, we practice self-defense and I told her to take no prisoners if someone touched her.
    Irrational. Stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man will most likely KILL a teenager trained or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agranjero
    We take the best of karate, judo,aikido,jiujutsu, and kobudo and combine it into one very effective art.
    Irrational. How many people have been blasted for saying this in this same context?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agranjero
    Now, for a couple of folks, like Mjelva: your implication is that my daughter knows aikido and that is bad. You need to do a little homework on Yoseikan Budo and it should be easy because it is all over Europe. Edgar Kruygar in the Netherlands has two books out about it contact him, but don't lump us in with the Ki Society, we practice our arts for different reasons.
    Irrational. Anytime spent on this site and you would know books prove nothing videos prefered please.

    Shalin-Do is all over the country so the point is...............what?


    Quote Originally Posted by Agranjero
    So please, if you don't like what I wrote, that's okay, but at least support my right to say it.
    Irrational. For us to support your right to say "it", you have to support our right to disagree witrh "it."
  2. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 6:11am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Quote Originally Posted by Agranjero
    So please, if you don't like what I wrote, that's okay, but at least support my right to say it.
    Irrational. For us to support your right to say "it", you have to support our right to disagree witrh "it."
    Funny. I could have sworn that's what he was doing. "If you don't like what I wrote, that's okay" sounds pretty damn like supporting your right to disagree.

    Let's not be assholes about this, okay? Firstly, Yoseikan Budo isn't the fluffy hippy art you're making it out to be - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoseikan_Budo and scroll down to the sparring section. Don't take Wikipedia's word for it though - there's video at http://www.yoseikan-ouest.org/film.htm which may remind you very little of the aikido you know and love.

    Now that's settled, let's unite against the ninjas, hmm?
  3. TXBudoka is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 9:24am


     Style: Yoseikan Budo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    Let's not be assholes about this, okay? Firstly, Yoseikan Budo isn't the fluffy hippy art you're making it out to be - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoseikan_Budo and scroll down to the sparring section. Don't take Wikipedia's word for it though - there's video at http://www.yoseikan-ouest.org/film.htm which may remind you very little of the aikido you know and love.

    Now that's settled, let's unite against the ninjas, hmm?
    Thanks for this! I was going to come on here today and post something to the effect that it was my impression that Bullshido was for exposing the BS in martial arts and not ones that are credibly but you disagree with.

    BTW - www.yoseikanbudo.com is in no way affliated with our group or the Mochizuki family. Patrick Auge did study at the hombu in Japan while it was there under Minoru Mochizuki but he has not chosen to stay with the organization as headed by the Mochizuki family. This is only to say that what they do IS Yoseikan but only focused on the aiki aspects.

    For the record - I didn't notice him saying his daughter was a major ass kicker. He just mentioned the guy wouldn't walk away without any marks. He was/is angry his family was treated that way. Let's not harp on the symantics of what and how he said something and look at the overall picture that these guys are trouble.
  4. Agranjero is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 9:39am


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't mind if people disagree with me. It happens all the time and I don't mind being wrong. Irrational, nope, and anyone who knows me will explain that I am the most rational person you could imagine.

    I have no need to defend Yoseikan, several have already done that. My purpose, again, in posting this information here was to make people aware of these very dangerous people. A few, like elnyka, have "gotten it", that small minded people who are controlled by others are capable of anything. What has gotten me in trouble before is that I am very knowledgeable about human behavior, it is how I make my living. Trust me when I tell you, these people will go after anybody they feel threatened by.

    Now, you are correct, if they were really good ninja I wouldn't still be here to write on bullshido. But, for some of those who don't trust my judgement, look through the archives here and check on one Chuck Greer in San Marcos Texas who was causing a real problem at the University. Right or wrong, you will find that I will go to the wall for people who are being hurt, deceived or wronged, especially in the world of martial arts.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 10:30am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    Funny. I could have sworn that's what he was doing. "If you don't like what I wrote, that's okay" sounds pretty damn like supporting your right to disagree.

    Let's not be assholes about this, okay? Firstly, Yoseikan Budo isn't the fluffy hippy art you're making it out to be - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoseikan_Budo and scroll down to the sparring section. Don't take Wikipedia's word for it though - there's video at http://www.yoseikan-ouest.org/film.htm which may remind you very little of the aikido you know and love.

    Now that's settled, let's unite against the ninjas, hmm?
    Hmmm, no not settled. Funny how now 3 people (2 of which are YA) misread what I have said. This is what happens when you defend an art and not your statements.


    Show me where I said Yoseikan is hippie ****. I didn't.

    Show me where I said anything negative about the art itself. I didn't.

    I said his statments are irrational. I showed where and why I felt this way.

    Neither I nor anyone else said it was a BS art. The worse that was said was don't impress by name dropping. Again not a knock agains the art. Also, not said by me.
  6. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 11:16am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    I said his statments are irrational. I showed where and why I felt this way.
    Yes, you did. That you felt them irrational is most cases a mark against your own rationality. I really wouldn't have thought you wanted us to go into more detail, but if that's what you want, that's fine by me.

    You begin by assuming his daughter is still a teenager; which supposition you will find no support for in any of his posts. The second assumption that even a trained female is no match for a "stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man" is one that's been kicked around here before; I believe Kidspatula, Annatrocity and JKDChick may have some useful input on that. Claiming that either of these beliefs on your part is "rational" is something most of us would reserve judgement on.

    You note that people who claim to take the best of several arts and combine it are usually blasted here - while failing utterly to note that this is heavily contextual on whether the system is theory-based or sparring-based. No-one blasts MMA or the Straight Blast Gym for mixing arts; no-one blames BJJ for mingling sambo techniques like leg-locks into their game, or Muay Thai for learning from boxing hands. That you weren't willing to perform the basic inquiry necessary to find out whether Yoseikan was a respectable system or not hardly speaks volumes for your rationality.

    Then you repeat the moronic "video plz" after being gently urged to do your homework on the system; and this makes you rational? You call his recommendation of a couple of books on the system "name-dropping"; and this makes you rational? And then the crowning glory, your moment of supreme stupidity, the one I called you out on:

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Irrational. For us to support your right to say "it", you have to support our right to disagree witrh "it."
    As a response to "If you don't like what I wrote, that's okay" - this either betrays a level of reading comprehension that would shame someone entering high school, or a basic inability to follow logic that leaves us questioning whether you even know what "rational" is.

    Admit it: you heard the word "irrational", thought it was a cool word, and then used it liberally all over the place without thinking what it meant, didn't you?
  7. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 11:37am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also:

    Infighting with a bunch of decent Yoseikan guys is stupid.

    Agranjero can be forgiven for being a little overly nervous about a bunch of fuckwits who drove 750 miles to harass him. Whether or not they did a whole lot, having a hostile cult on your ass has to be an unnerving experience. Even one composed of wannabe ninja idiots.

    Anyone who manages to piss off a group of wannabe ninja idiots to that extent by doing stuff consistent with this site's mission should be treated as a fucking hero round here, not hassled.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 12:21pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm interesting you call into question my reading comprhension and then proceed to misquote me on a continuing basis.


    Quote Originally Posted by SOPHIST
    You begin by assuming his daughter is still a teenager; which supposition you will find no support for in any of his posts.
    I do find support. When he said child I assumed she was young. I have a teenage daughter I don't call her a child. I'm basing this off my own experience. So, I'll admit I could be wrong here. I assumed this because he "gave permission" to his daughter who is his child. Usually and adult will not need permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agranjero
    We work hard in Yoseikan to not have problems with people and she has been taught to be in control, but when my child says she felt "violated" and "threatened" then I was glad to have given her permission to defend herself (and her mother by the way) with the full measure of her skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by SOPHIST
    The second assumption that even a trained female is no match for a "stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man" is one that's been kicked around here before; I believe Kidspatula, Annatrocity and JKDChick may have some useful input on that. Claiming that either of these beliefs on your part is "rational" is something most of us would reserve judgement on.
    Really first you would have to show them where I said this against women in general.

    Irrational. Stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man will most likely KILL a teenager trained or not.
    This is what I said no gender involved.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 12:32pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    Agranjero can be forgiven for being a little overly nervous about a bunch of fuckwits who drove 750 miles to harass him. Whether or not they did a whole lot, having a hostile cult on your ass has to be an unnerving experience. Even one composed of wannabe ninja idiots.
    Amen. Anyone that is emotionally stable, mature and with a family to love would undestand Agranjero's reaction. To the surprise of many, there are people in this world that besides doing martial arts, they also have families to care for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    Anyone who manages to piss off a group of wannabe ninja idiots to that extent by doing stuff consistent with this site's mission should be treated as a fucking hero round here, not hassled.
    Amen.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2006 12:33pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First, let me start by saying that if someone clearly states his ideas in a logical fashion, and if that person has a point, I'm the first to acknowledge that (as you see here).

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Insane. Wow stepping it up a bit? Where you there elnyka?
    I wasn't there, and neither were you. We only have his description of events. Based on that and that alone, you think his response is irrational. Based on that and that alone, I think his response was not.

    Since I've known of people being killed for an iPOD, for a pair of shoes (a former HS pal of mine), stabbed to death for taking somebody's parking slot in a supermarket, or for causing too much smoke while grilling a piece of meat, then I'm inclined to assume his response to this nutjobs is adequate.

    Note that not everyone is sane and has a minimum of moral restrictions (I dare to assume that not even among members of BS), so everytime I hear of a nutjob acting though, based on past evidence, I rather expect the worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Funny thing is I said it was bad. Did you or did you not read that part or are you mad because of the word irrational?
    Mad? Me? No, I'm not. I don't know you, you have not done anything even closely remote to get me mad, and you think to much of yourself if you think I'm mad because you used the word irrational in an quasi-anonymous internet forum. I just think that your conclusions about his response to the aforementioned situation are wrong for the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraphs.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    I'm responding to both of his posts. He did imply his Teenage daughter was an ass kicker. Why do you think the tank refference came up? Especially after describing one of the men as stocky.
    Yes, he described her daughter as an ass kicker. Do you have proof she is not?

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Irrational. Stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man will most likely KILL a teenager trained or not.
    Absolutely true. I cannot logically argue against that. I'm with you in that one statement 100%.

    However, first, that is not proof that she is not an ass kicker. I don't know if she is. Therefore, I'm not qualified to say if this is true or false, and neither are you.

    Second, this is not what you said or implied in your previous posts. If you had started with that sentence explicitily (Irrational. Stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man will most likely KILL a teenager trained or not), just as you are doing now, then I would have agreed with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Show me where I said Yoseikan is hippie ****. I didn't.
    No you didn't... in words, but that's the impression I got from the tone of your posts. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. I honestly don't care about Agranjero's art (or anyone's art for that matter). Communication is not only about putting words in sentences, but also about the tone in which you put them that convey the message... and if the tone of several posts suggest someone's art has a deficiency, I'd expect either a clarification of such posts or the introduction of evidence of such deficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Is it Fake??
    Show me where I said anything negative about the art itself. I didn't..
    ... hmmm, see below...
    Quote Originally Posted by Is it Fake??
    You have just said your art is the best of all worlds and your young daughter is a major ass kicker. This does sound irrational.
    This complex sentence is structured in such a way that the adjective irrational is applied to both simple sentences (art best of all words and daughter is an ass kicker).

    If that was not your intention, then you need to write better. If people conclude that you were saying anything negative about the art, it is not because they are out trying to argue with you. It's simply because of the way you are writing your posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Is it Fake??
    I said his statments are irrational. I showed where and why I felt this way.
    Well, it was until now that you stated the fact that a stocky, scary, crazy, intimidating man will most likely KILL a teenager trained or not that you have made a good point on this man's claims about his daughter's fighting abilities.... for this particular situation only.

    However, that does not follow that it is irrational to believe she is an ass-kicker.

    Moreover, that's still a red herring, sort of, since the main topic intended by Agranjero was that his family was harrassed. Whether that had a potential of physical danger, that MAY BE debatable, but the behavior displayed by these nutjobs was totally inapropriate, and cannot be sanctioned by any sane member of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviours that are found threatening or disturbing, and beyond those that are sanctioned by society. In societies which support free speech, only the more repetitive, persistent and untruthful types of speech qualify legally as harassment.
    Furthermore, the law identifies different types of harassment, including psychological harassment - repetitive unprovoked intrusions or interruptions. Since both the wife and daughter asked the nutjobs to leave, and they still came back (repetitive intrusions after being asked to leave), that's harrasment.

    Given that the subject of this website is to expose bullshit in the martial arts, and by extension, any type of behavior related to bullshido (as displayed by these pajama lords), then the starting topic of this thread is entirely within the spirit of this website.

    Up to this day I would assume that bullshido behavior would include harassment of a fellow martial artist and his family independently of the martial art he practices. That is something I would expect from any emotionally and morally sane person. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Comments regarding the effectiveness of Agranjero's martial arts (or lack thereof) are inconsequential to the further bullshido exposure Agranjero has done by creating this thread.

    What I do find repugnant is that this man comes here, to this very website that proclaims to fight bullshido, to say his wife and daughter got harrassed (which they did), and that his studends (and their parents) got scared, and there is people who instead of giving any form of helpul advice (.ie. relax, or be alert), all they do is say "heheheh, yo! you do aikido", "Is your daughter a tank? "

    That is repugnant.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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