Thread: Omoplata - is it legal in Judo?
2/06/2006 6:24pm, #1
Omoplata - is it legal in Judo?
Shoulder locks are forbidden in Judo competition so I was surprised when, flicking through Syd Hoare's book The A-Z of Judo, I came across ashi-sangaku-garami, which looks suspiciously like an omoplata to me.
Interestingly Hoare says "As the attacker leans forward so the pressure comes on the elbow joint". Eddie Bravo says of the omoplata (in Jiu Jitsu Unleashed) that "With a tremendous amount of pressure being placed on [the victim's]...shoulder, he is forced to tap."
My guess is that Hoare knows that ashi-sangaku-garami attacks the shoulder but nods it through as an elbow lock.
I couldn't find a definitive statement outlawing the omoplata in Judo competition but I did find a couple of posts on Judo forums that implied it was. Hoare's book was published in 1994 and it wasn't illegal then (banned techniques are shown but marked as being outlawed).
I couldn't get onto the IJF website to check there so I was wondering if anyone here had a definitive answer.Failing to become awesome since 1976
2/06/2006 6:35pm, #2
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
It is legal. In Best Judo they call it Ashi Garami (I think).
Just make sure you get it quick whe you use it in a judo tournament.
The "elbow joint only" thing in judo is not that clear cut. Uri garami (kimura) also attacks the shoulder joint from certain angles, and yet is completely legal in judo.
Originally Posted by YamabushiCurrent stage of death: denial
2/06/2006 7:14pm, #3
I've seen it in several Judo books. Most notably in Best Judo.
So I would say its legal. The Judo 'rule' saying armlocks may only attack the elbow joint is a joke.
2/07/2006 2:56am, #4
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
The canon of acceptable submission holds seems to vary a lot from place to place. There are probably some tournaments that will actually disqualify you for targeting the shoulder, but there are definitely a bunch who will allow it, especially when confronted with an illustration from a reputable sourcebook.
I was taught the omoplata as sankaku-garami, and my instructor said that, like ude-garami, it's in theory supposed to target the elbow but in practice ends up wrenching the shoulder because of imprecise application. He said that as long as you can get a tap, the judge will call ippon and seldom will it be challenged.
2/07/2006 9:00am, #5
Ude garami at no point targets the elbow.
Neither does the omo plata.
Calling them elbow locks are just plain wrong.More human than human is our motto.
2/07/2006 10:30am, #6Originally Posted by fanatical
Had to wrap his elbow after the match - that's what got hurt.
Ude garami done properly does attack the elbow; done in a rush, it attacks the shoulder. Kinda like hadaka-jime - done right it's a carotid strangle, but most people in competition do the choke version to get the submission quickly.
2/07/2006 10:37am, #7
Originally Posted by fanatical
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
" Udegarami can be done to apply pressure to the shoulder or the elbow. In Judo we try to achieve the armbar pressure on the elbow since it is the more efficient and effective version. The two key points that make ude garami work effectively against the elbow when you are in the basic udegarami position shown below are: 1) the arm should not be bent very far (90 degrees is too much), and 2) the elbow should be pulled towards the belt."
This is shoulder http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Gr...ra-5-small.jpg
and this is elbow
(remember, Helio's elbow was broken)
TomasCurrent stage of death: denial
2/07/2006 10:40am, #8Originally Posted by dakotajudo
Originally Posted by dakotajudo
2/07/2006 10:50am, #9
On ude garami. I suppose you're right. But having control of the arm when not keeping it at more than approximately 90 degrees requires nothing but strength imho. You can just bend the elbow over your knee too, but it's not a very mechanical or opportune method.
I just didn't think it was MEANT to attack the elbow and that the shoulder lock was a product of it. But vice versa.More human than human is our motto.
2/07/2006 10:54am, #10Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
Last edited by dakotajudo; 2/07/2006 10:57am at .