Counter Attactics - Homemade Self Defence

**DdlR** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 4:38pm

Civilized discussion - excellent!

Xiangfei,

you raise some good points here, especially regarding what can realistically be accomplished in a "short term" self defense training course. I've often been asked to teach one-off seminars, usually by organizations that won't/can't commit much time to train their personnel. Under these circumstances, I've found that a solid course in safety and awareness skills, trained through realistic role-playing scenarios, is better than offering a "taster" in physical defense skills. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, etc. So, I end up offering a "safety and awareness workshop" and no-one comes away with any Ultimate Fighter illusions.

OTOH, again, impact suit courses typically offer strong safety/awareness/verbal defense skills AND back it up with full contact assault scenario training. As long as the students are clear on what is being offered in a given course, and the time allowed is realistic re. the development of those skills, I don't see any Bullshido there.

**Askari** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 4:55pm

CdnRonin has typed the correct.

Here is a situation for the board. A friend of yours with no training comes to you and tells you that he is going to be in a fight in two days where he could be seriously injured.

What do you teach to someone when you only have a few hours to provide them self-defence training?

Those that have thought about this for awhile are going to come up with a very simple and ruthless set of techniques. The next step is finding a way to actively transmit this knowledge to the people that need it.

**Xiangfei** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 5:19pm

Originally Posted by Cdnronin

Where would you spend your time in an limited time class with newbies and soccer moms? Give that serious thought, you will probably end up with something similar to Thurman's course.

My initial thought to that was that I would assume the basics like avoiding dark alleys, talking on phones on crowded buses and the like were obvious, and I'd go onto basic release-from-grab stuff and ...

... then it's just occured to me that maybe those things I consider to be painfully basic safety really aren't so basic - or surely people wouldn't still do them.

So I'd probably go 'bugger' and have to edit the class to include possibly more 'awareness' than I'd feel happy with.

But I would still take the stance that prevention is all well and good, but it is still necessary to address what to do about the ones you can't prevent. That would involve instilling enough confidence from drills - yes, and I suppose a Slam Man, not that I'd use one - to recognise that a situation is occuring (because, at least I find, I lost precious seconds due to thinking 'dude. this is happening. like... here. to me. never thought of that.') and reacting quickly.

**Cdnronin** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 5:45pm

Originally Posted by Xiangfei

My initial thought to that was that I would assume the basics like avoiding dark alleys, talking on phones on crowded buses and the like were obvious, and I'd go onto basic release-from-grab stuff and ...

... then it's just occured to me that maybe those things I consider to be painfully basic safety really aren't so basic - or surely people wouldn't still do them.

So I'd probably go 'bugger' and have to edit the class to include possibly more 'awareness' than I'd feel happy with.

But I would still take the stance that prevention is all well and good, but it is still necessary to address what to do about the ones you can't prevent. That would involve instilling enough confidence from drills - yes, and I suppose a Slam Man, not that I'd use one - to recognise that a situation is occuring (because, at least I find, I lost precious seconds due to thinking 'dude. this is happening. like... here. to me. never thought of that.') and reacting quickly.

Sounds pretty similar to Thurman's course. If most folks were not sheeple, you could do hardcore SD classes for regular folks. As you say, you might spend more time covering awareness than you would like, but that is because it is needed. I hook up with an undercover cop every now and then, what I learn from him about awareness surprises me, and I have been doing this stuff a long time.

**Xiangfei** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 6:45pm

Nooo it wouldn't be like Thurman's - I'd still have to have more emphasis on the physical, even if it wasn't physical punching/kicking. Defence against grabs, simple kick to the knee, I don't know, I'm no teacher. I just think that while plenty of situations are so easily avoided - you pick up the paper and you go 'oh now why was she in that car? why was she in the dark alley at 4am?' - there are enough situations that can't be avoided; and they warrant attention too.

I'm just not a fan of 'awareness'... I don't know. It seems, to me, to condense a whole lot of situations into easy pigeonholes.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 7:11pm

You're right, situations that can't be avoided do warrant serious attention. The problem is that some organizations and individuals can't or won't commit the time necessary to learn the physical skills. If you have limited time, teaching a handful of escapes, knee-kicks or whatever runs the risk of engendering false confidence.

A good safety/awareness course will move straight into simulated "danger" situations, like having students walk down an alley to test their body language, surveillance skills, etc. It will teach specific tactics and strategies that have multiple applications for different situations and stress ways that the students can continue to practice these skills in their own time.

Normally, an impact suit-based course will run for about 25 hours spread over a period of days or weeks, and will spend most of that time on contact drills and then freestyle attack scenarios (including the safety/awareness exercises). By the end of the course, students will be fighting back with full force against "attackers" who are doing their best to intimidate and control the students. Nothing is perfect, of course; even if the program includes some level of protective gear for the students as well as for the "attackers", no sane instructor is going to allow soccer mom to be on the receiving end of full-power kicks and punches. A realistic course will stress this from the outset and will have protocols in place to simulate those aspects that can't be safely performed.

**Cdnronin** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 7:19pm

Originally Posted by Xiangfei

Nooo it wouldn't be like Thurman's - I'd still have to have more emphasis on the physical, even if it wasn't physical punching/kicking. Defence against grabs, simple kick to the knee, I don't know, I'm no teacher. I just think that while plenty of situations are so easily avoided - you pick up the paper and you go 'oh now why was she in that car? why was she in the dark alley at 4am?' - there are enough situations that can't be avoided; and they warrant attention too.

I'm just not a fan of 'awareness'... I don't know. It seems, to me, to condense a whole lot of situations into easy pigeonholes.

Just how would you have these situations be avoided? By physical techniques?
Understand the reality, if you are a 110 lb women(or man) and someone twice your size and meaner(say...me :5paperbag ) decides to tear you a new asshole, do you really think you can bring it without a whole lot of training? and if you can, how much of that is from awareness? Reality, if you get jumped, someone comes out of the bushes directly on to you, you're probably fucked no matter who you are. If a BG is sizing you up, and you don't recognize it, you're toast. If you do recognize you're being assessed, and you have some assertive training(including but not limited to physical technique), you may be able to avoid getting jumped.

You keep circling on how awareness is important, ther must be a reason for that. Even if you are street smart, the type of courses we are discussing are for people who aren't.

**Mr. Jones** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 7:43pm

I don't know what it is about Xiangfei but she seems different than other members of the board. Maybe it's because she's more intelligent or more mature at least when she logs on. Even if she changed her name and her avatar I would still recognize her posts.

I don't know much about these self defense courses but these are some of the main things I've noticed that you should or shouldn't do.
1. Never ever walk with your head down. Stand up straight with your head held high. I see people walk with their head down all the time and I'm thinking like what the hell is wrong with you, your walking like a victim.
2.Just walk like no one should mess with you. Any other words walk with attitude.
3.Speak loudly like your confident in yourself.
They interview criminals and they say stuff like he/she looked like a bitch so I knew it would be easy. In other words acting like a victim.

**rexkwon** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 7:59pm

Originally Posted by Mr. Jones

I don't know what it is about Xiangfei but she seems different than other members of the board. Maybe it's because she's more intelligent or more mature at least when she logs on. Even if she changed her name and her avatar I would still recognize her posts.

I don't know much about these self defense courses but these are some of the main things I've noticed that you should or shouldn't do.
1. Never ever walk with your head down. Stand up straight with your head held high. I see people walk with their head down all the time and I'm thinking like what the hell is wrong with you, your walking like a victim.
2.Just walk like no one should mess with you. Any other words walk with attitude.
3.Speak loudly like your confident in yourself.
They interview criminals and they say stuff like he/she looked like a bitch so I knew it would be easy. In other words acting like a victim.

4. Be seen , criminals don't want to be seen, park in the light ...............
5. don't go alone if you don't have to.
6. look at people this tell the person, "I know you are there"

**DdlR** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 8:18pm

7. Know how to attract attention if necessary and look as if you won't hesitate to yell, throw a rock through a storefront window, or do whatever it takes to get help.

8. Have specific but flexible tactics for escaping from physical danger and a follow-through plan (contacting support people/police/etc.) - be a "good witness".

Importantly - a good course will actively train all of these skills, as realistically as possible, not just hand out a sheet with bullet points or offer a quick chat before "getting down to business".