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  1. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 6:49pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Ok, I'll bite too. I always wanted to mention this thing that happened to me, but I never found an appropriate thread to write about it.

    This occurred, I think, back in 1992. I was working at a Home Depot in Florida, and one of my co-workers was (supposedly) l34thal in (gasp!) Aikido. Now, remember the times - this was just after Seagal's "Under Siege" hit the big screen. So everybody punk out there was like, "oh ****, Aikido!", specially the dude I sparred with. This dude took it to the extreme in his Aikido-Seagal-juice-sucking. He had long hair, with a pony-tail a-la-Siegal, and on halloween, he would come to work in his Aikidogi on, hakama and all, and to top it off, wearing a katana.. at work... for halloween... you get the picture. :icon_joke

    To add further embarrassment, he is Nicaraguan, like me. :new_puppy

    Ok, just to make the story short, the dude was strong, no doubt, stronger than I was, and he always claimed he had hands well conditioned for striking and **** like that. :ninjadanc

    The problem started when I was chatting in the breakroom with other guys who were going to the same comm. college I was going. I was taking a shotokan class as part of my PE requirements and I was telling the guys about it. Then Aikido-boy heard the conversation, and every since he would be pushing me and teasing me into some sort of sparring match. :boxing:

    I had no intention of doing so because I was there to work, not to engage into a samurai role-play ****, and to be honest, cuz I was intimidated by Aikido-boy. :confused1

    Anyways, **** ended up hitting the fan one time when he not only shoved me in the breakroom, but also tried to touch my face, and at that moment, I though "what the ****". So I shoved him back. That became a shoving match (with the fucker smiling contemptously), and at that moment he grabbed me and did a hip-throw on me (something resembling a uki-goushi). Up until that moment, this fucker was smiling, even as he was throwing me to the floor... AT WORK!!!! :5dunce:

    He totally caught me by surprise. Up and until that point, I never expected any sane person would do such a thing at a workplace. He could have injured me against the hard floor, at worst, and get us both fired at the very least. Anyways, he was already lifting me for the throw, and the only thing I could think of was to hold onto him in anyway possible. Lucky for me, I was able to grab one of his arm with one hand, and hold his shoulder with the other.

    So basically, we both went to the floor. At that point, his smile just vaporized. Somehow, don't ask me how, I was able to flip him (maybe cuz I latched onto him for dear life while he was doing the hip throw). He landed more or less hard on his back, while I landed on top of him. The problem was that I also landed on my right elbow, and that **** really numbed my arm, but I was able to mount him, right on his chest.

    After mounting him, I decided to get up because it was never my intention to fight or sparr at work, plus my arm was numb at that moment. So I got up, and extended a hand for him to get up. As he was getting up, he was saying "You got me man. why did you get up? You had me mounted right there." I didn't say anything since I wasn't in the mood to talk. The sooner I could put that stupid incident, the better. The last thing I wanted was to lose my job in proving some point with this loser. :angry5:

    Anyways, after that, he never shoved me around. So in a way it was a good outcome, but he could have gotten me fired or had my elbow fucked up.

    From that point, I learned that people could talk a lot of **** about their skills and still a being hakama-wearing-fairy Steven-Seagal-wannabe. He claimed to be doing Aikido for 5 years already, thus I would have expected him at the least for him to expect that I would grab him the way I did when he decided to hip-throw me. :viking:


    I love those poeple. Idiots that wear a Samurai get up for Halloween complete with Katana on their waist. It soo much fun to walk up to them and grab their katana and walk away with it. I had 1 tard follow me around asking for it back. He didn't get it that it was my sword now. I eventually gave it back the next day.

    Note to people: If you have no idea how to wear/use a weapon, don't wear/use it. Halloween isn't an exception.

    PS. Aikido Sucks

    PPS. Aikido Kenjutsu makes Aikido look like BJJ.
  2. Xiangfei is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 6:53pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unfortunately the only people I find who say "Oh I DO MARTIAL ARTS TOO!!" are women who then confess they indulge in Tae Bo.
  3. Camus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 6:57pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    elnyka,

    I know exactly what your talking about. I used to do it to judo guys all the time. You lock down their arm that is around your back and you ball yourself up. When they throw you, since you have their arm locked, the momentum carries them over you and you end up on top generally in a side position. Great freaking counter and most guys never expect it.
    Sounds like a really cool way to get back-mounted, unless you're Sakuraba
  4. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 8:34pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    I love those poeple. Idiots that wear a Samurai get up for Halloween complete with Katana on their waist. .
    Dude, you carry shakens around for self defense. Who the **** are you to rail against delusional bushido wannabees?
  5. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 8:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, the shakens are for distracting an opponent by hitting them in the eyeball.




    He does the knife LARPing for SD. geez!
    :new_all_c
  6. Soju_King is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 9:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tae-Ninjitsu Mu Sool

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this one time.....at job corps in georgia lol

    me an the rest of the caribbeans an south americans were invovled in a riot against the american crips, gd folks an traitorous hatians

    the resident martial artist on the opposin side, a hatian crip( wtf) from florida, had a reputation for bein a bad azz capoiera dude ( dunno how the **** that worked out)

    3 of my guys tried to jump him. in addition to plantin kicks into peoples faces, hatian dude was also armed with 2 sticks whackin away at people with it. he put out my 3 friends,

    i had just got done stompin out some dudes with some other peeps from my crew an noticed him........so i rushed towards him an we had a face off, he looked like he was gettin ready to throw somethin but noticed that i was in an apparant "MA" stance with my guard up so he hesitated

    after gettin cheered on an instigated by the crowd an his fellow butt-buddies, he rushed forward an goes down low to throw one of them fancy kicks.....bad juju.....i front kicked him in the face for bowin an leavin that area open, he drops his playsticks an stumbles back ,then i plant an axe kick on his head with the heel of my foot, when he went down.....i was joined by some comrades an he was promptly stomped out

    after that rumble, i then took over as the resident "bruce Leeroy" karate badazz on campus with a fan-club of chicken head girls as a bonus.
    Last edited by Soju_King; 2/04/2006 9:06pm at .
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 9:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Camus
    Sounds like a really cool way to get back-mounted, unless you're Sakuraba
    Hmmmm... never thought about that possibility until now that you mention it.

    How could one end up back-mounted when doing this counter to a hip throw? You curl-into-a-ball and clinch the fucker for dear life when you are in the air (at least, that's how I did it). By pure momentum, we basically flipped, and Aikido-boy ended up hard on his back, while I was basically on top of his chest at the end of the throw... with a bruised elbow mind you. :confused3

    The irony of it is that I learned that counter as a tip mentioned in a book, I think the Spanish version of "The Best Judo" (if I remember correctly). :evil5: My cousins and I practiced it from time to time on a mattress (our poor version of a mat). So much for the Seagal-wannabe's "many years of training" :XXpuke:

    Despite all his samurai LARPing, this man certainly didn't know what he was doing, and most likely neither did I. :icon_tong ... or maybe he did know something, but I would have expected someone who boasted so much about his martial testicles to do much better than that!!!! :la:

    Maybe it was pure luck that I ended up mounting him almost automatically right after the counter, but by the physics of it, I can't see how I could end up being back mounted with it . Care to elaborate? cuz I can't see how. Maybe cuz I'm a BJJ n00b, too. :eusa_doh:

    One thing for sure is that with regard of Aikido-boy, that was my sweet moment of glory for all eternity. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. :viking:


    *** EDIT ***

    revenge is so fucking sweet. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 2/04/2006 9:45pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Camus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 11:03pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok then, I'll bite. Unless I misunderstood you, the other guy is hip throwing, there's some kind of a clinch and you're turning around and gripping one of his arms. Now, if you're going to try that leg b/w the legs and with a figure-four and pulling some karo parisian/sakuraba move, then your skill is so far beyond mine as to make this conversation laughable; however, that not being the case, you're turning your back w/o gaining some dominant control of his arm and/or giving up your base(balling up into the air) and I see alotta options for the other guy, including a rear clinch to a trip, a possible suplex (umm. . .hehe) or him just jumping rear mount, putting the boots in and slapping an RNC.

    I must be having a hard time visualizing how this is going to be a good strategy to adopt.
  9. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2006 12:12am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Camus,

    I'll try to explain it. The guy executing the hip throw will step in grab you around your lower back turn his hip into you and then throw you. When he grabs across your lower back you pinch his arm with yours, basically pinning it to your body then you allow him to throw you. When I said roll into a ball I meant as he is throwing you, since you have his armed pinned to your body the momentum of his throw actually ends up pulling him over top of you once you hit the ground and you can continue with the momentum and end up in a Scarf hold position with him on his back.

    I hope this helps, it is really nothing elaborate but kind of difficult to explain without visual aids.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/05/2006 1:06am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    Camus,

    I'll try to explain it. The guy executing the hip throw will step in grab you around your lower back turn his hip into you and then throw you. When he grabs across your lower back you pinch his arm with yours, basically pinning it to your body then you allow him to throw you. When I said roll into a ball I meant as he is throwing you, since you have his armed pinned to your body the momentum of his throw actually ends up pulling him over top of you once you hit the ground and you can continue with the momentum and end up in a Scarf hold position with him on his back.

    I hope this helps, it is really nothing elaborate but kind of difficult to explain without visual aids.
    YES!!!! Camus, Ronin more or less explained what I did to the Seagal-juice-sucker. But as he said, it's kinda difficult to explain it in words. I've been trying to write a response but my PC kept dying... so here it goes :toothy12:

    The throw in question being countered is a judo throw, uki-goshi (or any similar hip throw... I think), not a wrestling takedown involving some sort of leg takedown thingie. The counter is quite simple and I'm pretty sure an experience judoka would know how to deal with it.

    A picture is worth a thousand words, and a video clip a million. So let me see if I can describe more or less what happened between me and the Home Depot Aikido-boy. First, this is a drawing of uki-goshi (thanks judoinfo.com):

    and here is a clip illustrating uki-goshi (again, from judoinfo.com): http://judoinfo.com/video/gokyo/UkiGoshi.wmv

    Now, imagine you are the uke, the person being thrown as demonstrated in the illustration above. Your opponent has his right arm under your left armpit, holding your back, and his left hand grabbing your gi, more or less, around your shoulder (or by the wrist). Either because you let the guy grab you and begin to throw you, or because you've been unable this far to counter your oponent, now your opponent has started to raise you over his hips.

    Now, at this point, your feet are no longer on the ground. He is bending over with you over his hips. That is, you are being thrown over your right shoulder as the right side of your abdominals/torso is over the right side of his hips.

    At that moment, you should have already have your counter in place: you have extended your left arm around his right arm and shoulder and holding his back as far as possible. At the same time you have extended your right arm under his left arm around his back as far as possible.

    Since you are clinching him, he is going down with you (not what your opponent intended). At best, your opponent will land on his back with you on top. Most likely, you will fall on your left side and he on his right side, but since both of you were spinning counter-clockwise during the throw, you can use that momentum to mount him or to push him away as you try to get up. At worst, both of you will be on the floor with him on top of you, but that's very unlikely unless he is really good and you really suck.

    Ideally, as you are being thrown and as you are clinging to him, you would want to pivot your torso counter-clockwise if you are being thrown over your right shoulder (or clockwise if over your left shoulder)... easier said than done.

    Also, you need to bring your knees to your body (or his body) as he is lifting you, that's what Ronin was referring to with "rolling into a ball." Imagine you are "turtling" on his chest, except that he is standing with you almost perpendicular to him accross his chest.

    As you do that, you bring even more of your own weight into the picture. Your whole weight (or almost all of it) is basically being applied to his chest while bending over (since you are clinching him chest to chest), and that will be sufficient to bring both of you down. There may be more to it, but that's how it looks to me.

    I believe you need to keep your elbows close to your body, which I didn't and which is why I hit my elbow when Aikido-boy and I landed on the floor.

    This morning, I was watching a videoclip of Randy Couture explaining some clinch techniques from wrestling, and I noticed that, in the clinch he was explaining, not only he gets control of the opponent by pinning his opponent's right arm under his left, but also, he would push his opponent's left arm (by the bicep) with his right hand. Perhaps one could do the same in this counter I'm referring to, but I'd be affraid to do so as I could land on my elbow as it happened.

    Let me know if this more or less explains it :user:

    *** EDIT ***

    Hmmm, for some reason, I can't get the graphic illustration of uki-goshi from judoinfo. But you can still see it at this URL : http://www.judoinfo.com/images/nauta/ukigoshi.htm
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 2/05/2006 1:19am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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