View Poll Results: So do you agree with JFS statement about Royce being able to do nothing to him?
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Originally Posted by Omar
Well I really wanted specifics, but you have **** to get to so I get it. I don't know if you were saying I was confusing the two but I wasn't, and further they are a point intertwined. We usually hear two stories from those speaking agaisnt base in a grappling art "You can grapple standing," and "Not all ground work is grappling." There's some incredible irony there, because you aren't going to seperate the fact that any groundwork which isn't purely stoming and up kicks requires more of a grapping base than nearly anything done standing in order to be effective. For all the rest, the facts that you aren't trying to control the other person, are trying to stay as stable as possible, using your legs to generate punching power, and aren't even trying to land knees only futher the case of zero takedown defense.
different from Muay Thai clinch work. No neck wrestling. Just apples and oranges on that one. No time to go into detail right now. Most of this response is just semantics. Confusing "grappling" with "groundwork" which is what I really mean by no experience. Same thing for JFS. He has minimal ground work. Hung Gar has it's own version of stand up grappling and it's not very throw oriented but technically if you are grabbing, you are grappling. One difference between the Muay Thai clinch work and the Hung Gar stuff is that Hugn Gar is not trying to set up knees. Both feet stay on the ground, generally you stay pretty low and there's a huge emphasis on keeping a stable base. There are some
similarities but in Hung Gar feet are for sweeping or helping punch while
someone is trying to hold your arms or neck.
Now this is all bullshit. To say Royce never fought anyone with any takedown defense in simply denial. Quite a few of CroCop's fights hit the ground actually, if you're going to build some case around that comparison, I've already won. So far he hasn't shown anything of his BJJ skills besides being able to keep Fedor in his gaurd (where Fedor has seemed most comforable in all his fights) except for a few armbar attempts which invariably let Fedor pass to side mount while delievering hammer fists. About Chuck, he's actuallywell known to get taken down though he is also known to eat a flurry while standing up again. And yes, Sakuraba went to the ground with Royce, which was my only point. This is getting dellusional however. The issue is JFS. You really have to be on some heavy meds to say the guy has more skill thank Kazushi Sakuraba, where I'll have to remind you the match lasted 90 minutes. Your comments about the takedowns shows some serious willful ignorance. Saying that most BJJ artists don't have the same emphasis on takedowns or superior positioning as most other practitioners of other grappling arts is what you meant. I have to say I'm with the majority and position is important. Claiming that there's a steep difference between two fighters' ability to perform the exact same takedown basec on which style they claim is bullshido of the highest order, unless you believe upper body takedowns are the only viable options in which case you're still bullshido only to a lesser extent. I'm not defending Osiris, I don't have a clue what his skill set is like, but if you think 40 pounds makes it impossible you got stop smoking rocks. You asked me to look at the pictures to see that they were standing, why? Does that mean the fight didn't go to ground? What's the obsession with throws too?
Not relevant. I said his opponents sucked as regarding takedown defense. How many of Crocop's fights go to the ground? How often is he able to get up again with his "blue belt equivalent"? How about Chuck? How about a Sak. vs. Royce? It happens, but it is not ineveitable as it would seem from watching UFC 1-4. I'd say eventually
if will happen to everyone. I am not arguing that point. But it doesn't happen in every fight. There is even a consensus around here that BJJ is not known for takedowns. They suck. That's why so many people resort to pulling guard and dragging their opponent down with them. In the context of Osiris vs. JFS. even that is not likely to work as JFS is a powerfully built man who weighs about 40 lbs. more than Os so he could probably stand up just fine with Os hanging off of him. Just look at the Kimbo vs. Royce pics that were just posted. Still no takedown. The first UFC fight with DeLucia where he broke Jason's arm. Did it while Jason was still standing up and Royce was hanging off the arm upside down. Great skills.....just not at takedowns or throws.
I knew that it's just, well, he fought MMA in K1 first. I think it was a matter of paychecks instead of career choices though and the fact he didn't enter in with the same skill set he garnered over time. Anyway everyone here should be aware what belt ranking mean. Wanderlei Silva is supposed to be a BJJ black belt himself.
I meant that Crocop was originally a K1 fighter. He fought just K1 for quite a while before he decided to try his hand at MMA. So when he had his first Pride match..... but you actually already answered my question. Thanks.
I think the difference is a guy who did quite well in division 1 and who has been pretty close to it for a large portion of his life versus someone who many here doubt can even sprawl. According to every single MMA fighter, analyst, or analytical fan you do need to know groundwork. Chuck is said to be one of the best as the BJJ academy he trains under. Still the guy has an ability few people posess. To keep using him as an a example is strange. Are there any consistent champs in the history of MMA (besides Silva who has been recently dominated by Arona) who don't posses much much skill in that area?
That's about the same exeperience as JFS is claiming. Some college wrestling. Now I know how Chuck has grown and learned on the job and all but it goes back to my point that you don't need to be a groundwork
expert to do well under MMA rules. I think a little goes a long way.
Didn't stop BJ Penn from completely dominating Hughes. And no one actually expects Hughes' muscle to win him the fight like you imply. What's changed about the game is the rules, the time constraints, the judges, and the politics. Not a single thing Royce did or does became antiquated in any real sense.
Most of that I knew already. Just reminding people how far massive strength and power can go and how much the game has changed that someone like Royce, regardless of the reasons, can be the underdog.
Hope you enjoyed it.
I can't resist. I have to respond to Jitsuman before I settle in for my flick.
What's the name of it? Last time I picked up a Zombie film in Thailand it ended up being 'Versus'... my favourite movie EVER
Not sure what the point of this thread is as the majority of bullshido will not like JFS chances on this one. I don't recall any other polls of Bullshido members vs Mike Tyson.
Last edited by Firebrand; 2/04/2006 9:18am at .
Well, Kimo had part of one day of martial arts training from a TKD green belt, if I'm not mistaken.
Originally Posted by liokault
Originally Posted by eyebeams
But a TKD green is like a black in any other style right? :new_infin
Though I find it hardto believe JFS would match up with prfessional fighter, thoguh I know little about the man and could be wrong, I think you all need to just let this **** go. It's over, old and shitting up the boards.
I'll take personal account from other peaople saying he has **** to offer over innane attempts to discredit his mouth...
When JFS publicly admits he's full of ****, and stops trolling and flaming, forever, then it can stop.
Don't hold your breath...
Originally Posted by I Choke You
I predict JFS will run away crying like a bitch, like he's forced to do every time this happens to him. This isn't the first board he's trolled, and it won't be the first board he's run of off for it.
I don't see why you'd wanbt to run him of the board when, if you took into account a mojority of the posters, besides admin, they'd want him to stay, if only for his creative use of the words **** wit and mouth boxer. But I don't want to get involved. I just come here for the pics of hot chicks
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