Guard jumping/slamming and Judo

**Lucky Seven** · Posted On: 2/04/2006 3:04pm

Old school Judo rules where realistic, at least a lot more then today, this is just one example....

**Te No Kage!** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 12:35am

Originally Posted by Ridder

I think the thought process behind this is that if you're competing in a Judo Tournament, you should , at least, adhere to the Judo ruleset.

Yes, jumping guard or trying to go straight to the mat without even attempting a throw will earn a penalty. It actually happens we have a few BJJ guys aroung here who, to the ire of the many Judoka, have stacked up quite a few tallies in the "submission" category and even more under "shido".

If you want straight up newaza, go to a BJJ (or whatever) tourny. There's a reason we start a match standing up.

BJJ tournaments start standing too.... being able to throw someone on their back in able to get good position to start ne waza should be reward enough

if Judoka are getting "ired" about getting submitted perhaps they need to polish up their ne waza and make their Judo more balanced

**Ridder** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 11:42am

Nice response ^.

However the point I was trying to make was that, while I'm sure we can all agree as to the importance of groundwork, throwing is integral to the Judo ruleset. Pure grappling is great, but if one competes in Judo one has to at least try a throw or face technical repurcussions.

I'm afraid that all I can say is "that's the way it is." The sport, like any, has some points that others would like to change.

**Locu5** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 1:38pm

Jump to half a butterfly guard and sweep on the way down. Compromise is good.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 8:10pm

Originally Posted by Te No Kage!

I have been wondering a while what basis they use to call a guard jump an ippon for the other guy. I stumbled upon this at judoinfo.com and I thought I'd share it with the rest of y'all. Apparently what we call a "guard slam" ala Rampage Jackson is called a Daki Age in Judo. I never knew this before....

Anyways, you can read about it here...... http://judoinfo.com/dakiage.htm

what I found most interesting was this little excerpt....

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but perhaps Judo was aiming for more realism when they made this rule -- to make a rule to point out that jumping guard or allowing yourself to be picked up is not a good idea because you can be slammed on your neck

but on the other hand.... it's not realistic to say a fight is ended when you're thrown or slammed for that matter, plenty of us have been slammed and continued on to win by submission (Fedor vs. Randleman), but others have certainly lost by being slammed (Rampage Jackson vs. Ricardo Arona)

anyway, I didn't want to make this thread another debate on why Judo rules suck because they favor the thrower (which they do). I just thought some of you may find this interesting.

The reason that people think that Judo slams don't work to finish a fight is because the fight is usually on mats and the standard for ippon is irregular. Judo throws have the potential to cause damage and BJJists in Judo tourneys should get penalized for not doing Judo. A judo comp is a good place for a BJJist to get a feel for real aggressive takedowns and a different style of groundfighting (if there is any good groundfighters present).

I definitely think that there should be more BJJists entering Judo comps because the newaza standard is too low. The same can be said for Judoka in BJJ comps, the person entering the comp should just become familiar with the rule set and act accordingly.

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 8:32pm

Not being allowed to pull guard in Judo was really annoying to me. Being picked up and slammed from guard is not that bad. Nothing like being properly thrown.

**dramaboy** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 9:52pm

Originally Posted by Te No Kage!

good luck and try to end in submission just so they can whine that you're a BJJ guy crashing their tournament

Thanks.

I acually had a pretty good run. I took second place in 178-198 seniors and second place in 198- masters.
1 loss by uchimata
1 loss by a pin
3 wins by submission (juji gatame from sidecontrol, uri garami, flying juji gatame)
1 win by default (opp pulled out due to injury)

The uri garami was against _gasp_ a Lloyd Irvin BJJ blue belt (and a very good friend of mine).

I was gonna make a separate thread on this just to annoy osiris, but **** it, I'm not bragging:))

I'm still annoyed by the fact that I was labeled an "incompetent grappler" and "sub par judoka" by the administration of this forum, all based on one silly short clip from a friendly informal roll.

Anyway, back to the topic of guard jumping.
Not a single time did I attempt to pull guard, or actually used guard. All my wins were from the top. Yoko sumi gaeshi into sidecontrol into submission, or flying armbar right away.
If you want to play guard in judo, you got to be really quick. You have SO much more time from the top.

Tomas

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 10:14pm

That's cool Tomas, flying armbars are always sweet.

I'm still annoyed by the fact that I was labeled an "incompetent grappler" and "sub par judoka" by the administration of this forum, all based on one silly short clip from a friendly informal roll.

I never said that. I CERTAINLY never said you were a sub-par Judoka (par being pretty fucking crappy).

[brownnosing]I believe in you, Tomas![/brownnosing]

Do you feew bettew now?

**MONGO** · Posted On: 2/05/2006 11:56pm

Originally Posted by I Choke You

Not being allowed to pull guard in Judo was really annoying to me. Being picked up and slammed from guard is not that bad. Nothing like being properly thrown.

Now, I think it would be perfectly appropriate to follow your opponent to into newaza if you sweep him onto a knee or if he's going real low to avoid getting thrown. I think Judo should be aggressive and pulling guard by flopping onto your back is not very aggressive.

I think that BJJ tourneys are much more open to slower and more strategy on the ground, this is good but the type of fight is different. No biggie, its fun to do both, get as much gayrapple on as possible. Its all free love. :male:

**dramaboy** · Posted On: 2/06/2006 10:23am

Originally Posted by MONGO

Now, I think it would be perfectly appropriate to follow your opponent to into newaza if you sweep him onto a knee or if he's going real low to avoid getting thrown. I think Judo should be aggressive and pulling guard by flopping onto your back is not very aggressive.

Werd!

Play the top if you can, no complicated strategies, scramble to what you can get.
It is very important to be able to judge your newaza progress in a judo match. One glaring difference between Judo ground game and BJJ is that in BJJ once you get the armbar set up, you hold on and work on minor adjustments untill you get it. In judo you have to judge whether you can get it in the next 5 seconds and if not, you need to give that one up and go for something else. Juji gatame -> tate shiho (mount) for example.

Tomas