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  1. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 7:50pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    hmmmm .... ok ... so why would you say so much stupid **** then ?




    Yes the best way to fight is not to fight ... becouse that's the only way you are not going to touch them or let them touch you .



    Axe kick to the knee ? Off a tackle or a shoot ? You are sofa king retar dead I have to use that line again ... and it's old and worn out .

    It is not silly ****. It is a style difference. CQB is not about wrestling, and ground fighting techniques are about quick finishes. It is not a martial art. "Dirtry techniques are allowed". Similarly all basic CQB kicks are aimed at the knee or shin. A high kick is pretty but not as effective. TKD shows this. Renowned CQB instructor Charles Neslon, showed how he could break a brick with his fist, then pointed out that a brick does not generally hit back! Yet you see idjiots stacking the feckers up and breaking them to show their "skill" and focus. BFD!

    If you can stop a grappler from touching you his tools are minimal. If they DO touch you and you can reduce it, they are minimal.
  2. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 7:54pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jitsuman
    If you can't defend yourself against a wrestler (the most common fighters around, every highscool has a wrestling team) what exactly do you know about self defense again?

    Bullshit you wrestled in highschool, you dont know what a fucking sprawl is.

    a shot is not a "grab". Thinking you can "retaliate in the manner I was trained" effectively against a shot, when you obviously cant, means you will get your ass kicked by wrestlers. Case closed. You don;t get to decide when to wrestle a wrestler, they make that decision for you.

    Once again, it's not about POV, it's about realistic defense against the shot. You dont have it.

    If you say so. But you saying it is thus does not make it so.

    I did wrestle.I boxed as well, but neither are as effective in real life.

    Get over yourself spud!

    You know next to nothing about CQB and this shows. I am not saying I would win all the time, I am however giving a different POV, and your closed little mind seems to be imploding with the idea of someone having a different answer.
  3. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 7:57pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In order to defend the anti-grappling homo-ry all over this thread, I'd like to point out that those techniques might not work against somebody who actually knows how to do a double or single leg. However, they MIGHT work against some bum trying to pull you down using no technique. Just a thought. I feel this is an aspect of the entire debate that the people who know grappling often disregard. Yes, the techniques Enech are advocating would get you violated gruesomely if trying to use them against any halfway decent grappler, but how often do you get into fistfights with halfway decent grapplers?
    Last edited by Shawarma; 2/02/2006 7:59pm at .
  4. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:00pm

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     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and yeah I'm very familiar with the omplate armbar traingle from guard transitions, it's just that The only time I train takedowns 100% live are on thursdays (wrestling/judo class) and if you're put on your back and dont have the sub already locked you "lose".
    I never understood that kind of training...it's why I found Judo annoying. I always wanted to start standing and end at submission. Training one thing at a time is just boring.
  5. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:00pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    In order to defend the anti-grappling homo-ry all over this thread, I'd like to point out that those techniques might not work against somebody who actually knows how to do a double or single leg. However, they MIGHT work against some bum trying to pull you down using no technique. Just a thought. I feel this is an aspect of the entire debate that the people who know grappling often disregard.
    The techniques that work against a trained grappler work against anyone. The converse is not true. Therefore, why train sub-optimal techniques?
  6. Jitsuman is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:00pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Enech
    If you say so. But you saying it is thus does not make it so.

    I did wrestle.I boxed as well, but neither are as effective in real life.

    Get over yourself spud!

    You know next to nothing about CQB and this shows. I am not saying I would win all the time, I am however giving a different POV, and your closed little mind seems to be imploding with the idea of someone having a different answer.
    Dude, not sure who told you differently, but Basic CQB gets laughed out of the house on a daily basis. The reason being is that not enough time is spent perfecting the skills learned. The military simply does not have the time or money to do so.

    What you are learning is mostly watered down BS that is mean to make you *think* you can handle any situation and give you confidence, nothing more.

    The military does not want you fist-fighting on the battlefeild, they want you shooting as many rounds as possible. This is why their hand to hand combat training is laughed at by actual fighters.

    How do I know this.

    1. There are many active soldiers on this board who'll tell you the same thing.

    2. I've choked out more soldiers than I care to name. They're just not very skilled at hand to hand.
    Last edited by Jitsuman; 2/02/2006 8:06pm at .
  7. Jitsuman is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:03pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by I Choke You
    I never understood that kind of training...it's why I found Judo annoying. I always wanted to start standing and end at submission. Training one thing at a time is just boring.
    True, this is a flaw with the BJJ design I fully admit.

    Though I do give myself a +1 for training at one of the few BJJ schools that at least trains live stand-up weekly.

    and we do start standing and end with submissions occasionally, just not enough.
  8. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Enech
    It is not silly ****. It is a style difference. CQB is not about wrestling, and ground fighting techniques are about quick finishes. It is not a martial art. "Dirtry techniques are allowed".

    1
    Similarly all basic CQB kicks are aimed at the knee or shin. A high kick is pretty but not as effective.

    TKD shows this. Renowned CQB instructor Charles Neslon, showed how he could break a brick with his fist, then pointed out that a brick does not generally hit back! Yet you see idjiots stacking the feckers up and breaking them to show their "skill" and focus. BFD!

    2
    If you can stop a grappler from touching you his tools are minimal. If they DO touch you and you can reduce it, they are minimal.
    1
    How the **** are you gonna ax kick a knee on someone who is trying to tackle you even after you teleport into a position they arent expecting you to go ?


    2
    all strikes end up hitting the target ... guess what ... with in arms reach . Yes ... most of the your kicks land in the same range ...

    That puts you both with in four feet . You will be touched . This is a lesson I have learned recently . It's all the same "range" , you either sprawl and brawl your way out or you try to take contral of the takedown and turn it into your choice .

    If you can do anything else they are not good at takedowns and are being sloppy ... and trust me I know about sloppy and failed takedowns .


    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    IYes, the techniques Enech are advocating would get you violated gruesomely if trying to use them against any halfway decent grappler, but how often do you get into fistfights with halfway decent grapplers?
    Quite a bit recently actualy ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  9. Jitsuman is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:08pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    axe kicks to the knee are generally useless, because the knees of a trained fighter are usually bent.

    hitting a bent knee will rarely damage it.

    Dont believe me? bend your knee and punch it as hard as you want. You'll hurt your hand more than your knee.

    There is a reason why the bent knee is used as an offensive weapon in muay thai, and it's not because it's fragile.
  10. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 8:14pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    1
    How the **** are you gonna ax kick a knee on someone who is trying to tackle you even after you teleport into a position they arent expecting you to go ?


    2
    all strikes end up hitting the target ... guess what ... with in arms reach . Yes ... most of the your kicks land in the same range ...

    That puts you both with in four feet . You will be touched . This is a lesson I have learned recently . It's all the same "range" , you either sprawl and brawl your way out or you try to take contral of the takedown and turn it into your choice .

    If you can do anything else they are not good at takedowns and are being sloppy ... and trust me I know about sloppy and failed takedowns .


    Quite a bit recently actualy ...
    A sidestep should take you to their side at right angles., and it is NOT a teleport. It works. A parry will take you side on to them and make a harder target.

    In the case of a sidestep, you will have an exposed knee or two that you can quickly axe kick. No matter how strong they are they will go down, long enough to stomp, kick, knee, etc.

    I gave my initial reaction as this.

    THEN I gave option two:

    I got tackled I am on my back BUT their face is near mine, Eye gouge (unless they are wearing sun/safety glasses (and lets be honest if some one attacks me in the lab I will throw acid ior base, or a solvent n thier face, that is the only place I regularly see safety glasses worn)). I could also hit them in the throat. I am not goind to the level above this one (weapons)

    Thrid option is then if I HAVE to ground fight. Then I would use a choke. Likely a few elbows to the head to soften up first.

    CQB is about trying to finish fast. A drawn out wrestle is a bad thing to a soldier, or a civilian. Some one bigger is likely to win. Or their buddy is likely to get you.
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