Sorting out the "stick" arts

**JohnJ** · Posted On: 3/18/2006 6:36am

Don't be fooled into thinking the Gatherings are the sole representation of DBMA training. Crafty, Dogzilla and Pappy (Hermosa Beach clan, Hawaii clan and North Hollywood clan respectively) all devote equal parts to the more traditional/self-defense applications within the FMA.

That is not what I was getting to. I was simply pointing out the differences in stickfighting venues and the benefits. But also, pointing out the necessities of making the distinction in how we train. I know Marc from well over 10 years ago and understand that they are always evolving as one should do.

JohnJ

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 3/18/2006 6:30pm

Originally Posted by JohnJ

What the Dog Brothers have done is provided a venue for individuals who wish to take it up another notch. However, to further clarify the mentality and approach is still based on the sport aspect. In other words, both players are controlling each others range, striking with intent to move in and out or crashing. But, there still needs to be a separate approach to training the multitude of techniques offered in FMA. Watch carefully the bouts and you see but a handful of them used i.e. ikis, sumbra, tusok etc. What happened to the others?

The others may not be applicable to this particular context or work as well in a "live" situation. One criticism of the Dog Brothers is often what is perceived to be a lack of refined technique. However as we all know real fighting is not pretty and often the simple techniques are more effective than complicated techniques. I'd have to agree with Poidogs comments as well. There is a new clip on the DBMA site that shows Crafty in Mexico with both knife and weapon (gun for you civies) technique. Worth a quick glance.

Originally Posted by poidog

Don't be fooled into thinking the Gatherings are the sole representation of DBMA training. Crafty, Dogzilla and Pappy (Hermosa Beach clan, Hawaii clan and North Hollywood clan respectively) all devote equal parts to the more traditional/self-defense applications within the FMA. Just last week, the NoHo clan ended class with some firearm situational drills (in which Red Elvis killed me...DEAD).

Ahhh, but to be fair Poidog first killed me three times in a row via knife as I struggled with moving off the line of attack while simultaneously drawing the firearm. (Damn long t-shirts!) It wasn't until a fellow Kosmonaut konspired with my to try a different approach that I was able to draw and effectively kill Poi.

Originally Posted by poidog

Routine aspects of our classes include defensive knife work, and Pappy routinely introduces some new Pekiti drill (which invariably fucks me up, trying to unpattern my previous conditioned responses).

This is a re-occurring problem with me. Trying to rid myself of conditioned responses that have become detrimental to my learning curve. The end result is quite often bruised knuckles for me.

**kikkoman** · Posted On: 3/18/2006 6:53pm

Do the dog brothers allow nunchuck fighting? Do they have gatherings on the east coast?

I was thinking about doing a nunchuck fight.

**JohnJ** · Posted On: 3/18/2006 9:27pm

The others may not be applicable to this particular context or work as well in a "live" situation. One criticism of the Dog Brothers is often what is perceived to be a lack of refined technique. However as we all know real fighting is not pretty and often the simple techniques are more effective than complicated techniques

The difference is not in the context it is dictated by the engagement. Stickfighting no matter what venue is done with a dueling mindset and is still sport. Therefore, opponents are quite often striking with intent to move back out or strikes are retracted to chamber, much like boxing. In the inital stages of a self defense situation, an attack is often isolated in it early stages and overly committed i.e. a shove, grab, sucker punch Take the basic 5 angles and individually train them with the same intent and you will find many of the techniques can or do work. It is a simple matter of training. Isolate single attacks and/or introduce combos like in 1-2 step sparring but in realtime and with true intent.

I am a firm believer that there are no such thing as advanced techniques and complex ones do not belong in a combat art. Although I have seen many that I simply ignore. The basics done proficiently at any given time with any scenario IS your advanced technique.

JohnJ

**JohnJ** · Posted On: 3/18/2006 9:33pm

Do the dog brothers allow nunchuck fighting? Do they have gatherings on the east coast? I was thinking about doing a nunchuck fight

.

Most if not all blunted weapons are allowed as are some flexible weapons so yes, the chako is allowed. There are no official DBMA hosted Gatherings on the East Coast. The closest was the Lionheart tournament hosted by Allen Sachetti back in the mid 90's. They no longer have them but there are tournaments held that allow live stick no armor but empty-hand is restricted. April 9th, there will be one in Maryland. There is also a group called Modern Agonistics in Baltimore that play in a similar fashion but somewhere between DBMA and SCA. I look forward to bringing my students there and would like to try out the machete play. Although dulled, it is a great way to test one's proper handling of bladed weapons.

JohnJ

**DJR** · Posted On: 3/20/2006 10:53pm

I worked in Ottawa for awhile a few years ago, and couldn't find anything in the way of fulltime FMA schools while I was there (there was a Muay Thai place off Bank street that offered infrequent Kali classes, but only at an extra cost once you were already enrolled in MT).

Philip Gelinas in Montreal is very, very good. He was one of the original Dog Brothers and is one of the top Pekiti Tirsia instructors in North America. I took a few classes with him on weekends while I was working in Ottawa. Pekiti isn't the easiest system to learn if you're as uncoordinated as I am though (a lot of double weapon techniques and some of the footwork is a bit unusual compared to other MAs). Here's a link to his school's Kali page:

http://www.montrealmartialarts.com/e.../html/kali.HTM

I also checked out a Filipino instructor in one of the north Montreal neighbourhoods who was pretty impressive to watch. I think he was related to one of the big name FMA instructors in the Philipines (Cacoy Canete, from Doce Pares, maybe?). I can't remember his name for sure, but I think it might have been Chris Bautista. They spar at that school, but I think maybe not at the same intensity as DBMA and with more equipment. The prices there were very good, if I remember correctly.