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  1. Southpaw is online now
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2006 11:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sparring: Simulated fighting for practice.


    Applies to both martial and verbal.
  2. BFGalbraith is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 12:02am


     Style: Tai Chi,BJJ,knife-dueling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Pa Kua in Seattle?

    I've got a friend in Seattle who is dead-set on studying BaGua. What school/instructor could I recommend to him? (I guess could show him those video clips and insist that Judo and BaGua are the same :new_llyin .) Here's my criteria for "recomendation" listed in order of importance:

    1)They do some kind of contact practice between students that involves some kind of resistance.
    2)They have some kind of lineage to show that they are actually BaGua (and not some other martial art in disguise.)

    When I was at the 2001 Tiger Balm I noticed a BaGua guy that was able to execute head throws while someone was doing moving step push hands against him (not in official competition obviously.) But does my friend have to commute to Canada to find decent BaGua in the North West?

    Is there some place else on Bullshido I might ask about this? (I checked the "school listings" already.) Are there any Bullshido members in this area that do BaGua that I might contact for recommendations?
  3. AikiZenDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 12:20am


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i think we all generally agree in theory, but the terms and talking about it seem to become problematic... and too often people use the whole alive/dead thing to put down anyone else whose training or method does not measure up to your level of 'required' intensity... but aliveness is more about authenticity/realism than just intensity/resistance, although that is very definately important too...
  4. losttrak is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 3:21pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BFGalbraith
    I've got a friend in Seattle who is dead-set on studying BaGua. What school/instructor could I recommend to him? (I guess could show him those video clips and insist that Judo and BaGua are the same :new_llyin .) Here's my criteria for "recomendation" listed in order of importance:

    1)They do some kind of contact practice between students that involves some kind of resistance.
    2)They have some kind of lineage to show that they are actually BaGua (and not some other martial art in disguise.)

    When I was at the 2001 Tiger Balm I noticed a BaGua guy that was able to execute head throws while someone was doing moving step push hands against him (not in official competition obviously.) But does my friend have to commute to Canada to find decent BaGua in the North West?

    Is there some place else on Bullshido I might ask about this? (I checked the "school listings" already.) Are there any Bullshido members in this area that do BaGua that I might contact for recommendations?

    Dude, make a separate post....
  5. losttrak is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 3:29pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I'd love that. Let's start by defining "sparring".

    Thoughts?
    Lets make a separate post about this and see what we come up with. If this task is going to be done with all seriousness, we should dedicate a post to terminology.
  6. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Oslo, Norway
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2006 5:49pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikiZenDragon
    i think we all generally agree in theory, but the terms and talking about it seem to become problematic... and too often people use the whole alive/dead thing to put down anyone else whose training or method does not measure up to your level of 'required' intensity... but aliveness is more about authenticity/realism than just intensity/resistance, although that is very definately important too...
    *Pouring on some fuel because threads here never stop growing*

    Aliveness is not just about application of technique. It is in a small way about techniques themselves.

    In the classic cliché SBG video, Thornton talks about how few to none would swing a stick like you would train in a common FMA class. However it is how you learn to hit to build a skill. (training in the system, as mentioned)

    Then there is the actual application to fighting. People will swing hard, fast and wild and you will not be able to apply techniques like you did while drilling. It requires that little "extra".

    I've talked to a few (note a few) Aikido people, who have largely agreed that Aikido's (using it as an example because I want to tickle your argument nerve) attacking techniques are largely unrealistic and not very alive. They are exaggerated and VERY unusual methods of attack, and though this teaches you a skill within some parameters. Eventually you will have to spar to learn how to apply ANY technique full force. That is my view of the matter. Why people feel that many things are , pardon my french, retarted. Is due to the fact that.. Are you going to train with techniques and methods that give you a LONG way to go to realistic application, or do you choose to use methods as closely related to a real fight as possible?

    If your goal is to increase your fighting skill, then the latter is imho the only way to go.
    More human than human is our motto.
  7. AikiZenDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2006 5:07am


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i get your point and share your reservations about most aikidoka... but even with the stylized attacks its kind of like driving a car... once you learn how to drive one particular car you can pretty easily drive a different kind of car... true enough that there are some differences, but the general idea is the same... this is IMO why aikido trains against what i think of as general attacks that cover a range of specific attacks, but these stylized attacks are a low level of practice, at higher levels you would practice against more specific types of attacks and how to deal with the relatively minor differences... maybe it is not as efficient or realistic as some other ways of training, but i feel it is a valid method of training people
  8. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2006 12:28pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And that is why people feel Aikido has little aliveness. '

    And I personally do not agree that any metaphor has a place in learning to fight. Either get to the point or don't. Don't mess around with how "it's like parachuting or bicycling or summersaults or making a ham sandwich" Aikido guys seem to be unable to speak in anything but metaphor. And I don't give a **** about metaphors.

    So my question stands. Why not attempt to teach something closer to reality at once if fighting skill is your focus? Most on bullshido don't give a **** if people say they are just playing around. But if fighting ability is concerned then the question still stands...
    More human than human is our motto.
  9. AikiZenDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2006 1:33pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i agree most aikido has little if any liveness... as i have said before most aikidoka do not study with the intention of 'becoming kick ass cage fighters in a couple of months" the self defense benefits that some may develop are also seen as secondary at best... i don't believe this but many traditional schools do... again it comes down to different goals and thus different training... i and many others do believe in more rigorous live training and that is okay too... aikido is not one size fits all... it has room for variety in personal goals and levels of performance and training... the only thing that hampers this is some instructors who do the bullshido thing and act like they know it all and don't encourage students to question or experiment or follow goals that are different... but there are some that do teach a more realistic alive style... and if you don't like metaphor's thats cool... here you go once you've seen one punch to the head you've pretty much seen them all you may have to make adjustments but your technique will be the same... once you've learned to pass guard on one guy you can pretty much pass guard on any guy you just make adjustments...
  10. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2006 4:29pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikiZenDragon
    i agree most aikido has little if any liveness... as i have said before most aikidoka do not study with the intention of 'becoming kick ass cage fighters in a couple of months" the self defense benefits that some may develop are also seen as secondary at best... i don't believe this but many traditional schools do... again it comes down to different goals and thus different training... i and many others do believe in more rigorous live training and that is okay too... aikido is not one size fits all... it has room for variety in personal goals and levels of performance and training... the only thing that hampers this is some instructors who do the bullshido thing and act like they know it all and don't encourage students to question or experiment or follow goals that are different... but there are some that do teach a more realistic alive style... and if you don't like metaphor's thats cool... here you go once you've seen one punch to the head you've pretty much seen them all you may have to make adjustments but your technique will be the same... once you've learned to pass guard on one guy you can pretty much pass guard on any guy you just make adjustments...
    No.

    And

    No.
    More human than human is our motto.
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