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  1. #61
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    So if I'm rolling full out against my instructor and he is dicking around going maybe 50%, is that sparring or not?
    What about when I do the same as he against white belts?
    Is one of us drilling and the other sparring?

    Discrete definitions to continuous processes are, a priori, wrong.
    No, what Phrost said was that limited progression in given situations are drilling. Saint Thornton calls it isolation sparring.

  2. #62
    UpaLumpa's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And by trying to discretely classify a continuous phenomenon, he is wrong.

  3. #63

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well said UpaLumpa... i do that too so does it count as live sparring if one person is at one level and the other a different level? is the idea that drilling means you are NOT trying to submit the other guy?

    Drilling may have varying levels of both, but in a set format (as in, "do not progress beyond point X"). what do you mean by format? like a Form or routine with no attempting to submit (point X)?

  4. #64
    Phrost's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it a continuous phenomenon though?

    If you define "sparring" based on the level of resistance, contact, and intent/aliveness, then there is a clear line where drilling/whatever ends and sparring begins.

    There are only so many things you can do to prepare for a fight, and some are better than others. It's important to define terms and draw clear distinctions between them in order to identify what's good, and what isn't.

    So I'm not sure what you mean. Have the methods for training for a fight changed that much in recorded human history to render invalid any attempts to define terms? Short of plugging your head into a database of fight techniques ala the Matrix, there's not much that's changed in the process. You prepare for a fight by approximating the movements needed to win at various levels of contact with various levels of resistance.

  5. #65
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    And by trying to discretely classify a continuous phenomenon, he is wrong.
    Drilling is working on a very restricted subset of your skills in a start-stop-reset fashion. Sparring is continuous, with the full technique set. Discrete enough?

  6. #66
    Cullion's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I take Upa's point about how these get blurred when they're asymmetrical. When I 'spar' against people substantially more skilled than me, I've certainly had the experience of going 'all out' whilst they clearly 'play' and perhaps work on little things they might not get the chance to try with people at their own level.

    What's the proper definition here ?
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  7. #67

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    and where is that line you still have not made it clear to me at least where that line is drawn... it seems that the only thing that counts as sparring is to get into the ring and go for it...

  8. #68

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But UpaLumpa raised a good point there.

    My take is that as long as it is a free technique exchange with contact and resistance is sparring. Sparring may vary its level of intensity, I wouldn´t call sparring only the full-contact type.

    If the difference in technique, experience, skill, physical conditioning etc. between two parterns is high, it is not uncommon that, while one is going full for it, the other is merely "palying" around.

    Both partners can benefit from that, one gets the benefit of fighting an skilled opponent, and the other may try new things or tricks against a non-compliant partner, as a step prior to trying it on better opponents.

    For me, sparring should be approached like any other aspect in training: progressively.

  9. #69

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    i agree Lights Out... i love sparring with white belts their reactions are not like a trained opponent who knows all your tricks and favorite techniques

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by AikiZenDragon
    i agree Lights Out... i love sparring with white belts their reactions are not like a trained opponent who knows all your tricks and favorite techniques
    Not to mention that n00bies tend to attack "teh inc0rrect", thus adding an element of impredictability.

    I managed to punch and kick people with more experience than me sue to sloppy technique, while they were evading all my "good" hits.

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