Thread: Trouble with shoulder throws
1/31/2006 3:07am, #1
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Trouble with shoulder throws
i have trouble with Ippon Seoi Nage. As i perform the throw, i find that i often don't have quite enough momentum to get the opponent over myself and often start to squat and lower myself as they go over, stepping back as they go over me. Is this normal? should i be concerned or am i doing fine?
1/31/2006 3:14am, #2Originally Posted by Whispers"No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
1/31/2006 3:18am, #3
Pray tell, how are you doing the throw and where are you training it? If it's in TKD class, then your problems probably start around there.
That being said, it's probably a timing issue. You should wait until there's some forward movement with the arm (either through pushing or through your opponent advancing with the arm extended) in order to capitalize on the movement. If that's not it, it might be a grip thing.
Where are you grabbing on the arm?
/\ /\ /\ /\
| | | |
What he said
Last edited by Bang!; 1/31/2006 3:20am at .
1/31/2006 3:47am, #4
Squatting deeper and stepping back a little is a legit method of getting a stalled seoi-nage to work on the second attempt, but you shouldn't rely on it every time.
Check your position before you bend over: is your hip underneath his center of gravity? Do you have solid contact between your back and his chest? Are you pulling forward strongly on the arm?
Oh, and of course, ask your instructor.There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
1/31/2006 4:26am, #5
1/31/2006 8:25am, #6
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Thanks for all the help. No i'm not learning this at my TKD class. I'm learning it from a friends parent whom happens to live 3.5 hours away (he's free and he's not much farther than the next closest person). I only make it up to see him twice a month at absolute most so we cram alot of stuff in and i work on it like mad with someof my friends who wrestle when i get back here. I know it's not the best way to go about this, but it's better than nothing.
1/31/2006 9:54am, #7
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
Remember turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn. All my problems with that throw are because I dont keep turning. I stall out a little. When I fail the throw in randori its normally because i turn about 3/4 the way and stop because I think its not going to work.
I'm slowly learning to keep the commitment of the choke/throw even if you think its not working. Thats usually when you have it right and in the case of the choke the guy is about to tap, you just had to hold on but you didn't think you had him, or in the case of a throw you just had to keep turning.
Once you start just complete the whole motion. Its hard to diagnois a problem without watching you throw though. It could be a number of things. I only know my problem is that I hesitate in my turn.
1/31/2006 10:29am, #8
1) you're probably rarely ever going to pull off this throw in randori -- because everybody knows this throw and hence knows how to defend against it
2) set it up with another throw -- ko soto gari is a good combo throw for the ippon seionage
3) practice, practice, practice"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln
Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
1/31/2006 10:51am, #9
Originally Posted by Whispers
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
Are you entering from a judo concept of Kuzushi, or are you striking before entering? Off balancing can be acheived by breaking the balance of your uke, or by striking to acheive a momentary lapse of concentration from your opponent. The concept of blow throw blow is the basis of Kawaishi style jiu jitsu.
I find if you are striking to make your entrance, where you hit makes a big difference on the throw. I have seen many folks use a punch to the chest area, problem being you are fairly upright to make the punch(picture a boxer). I prefer to strike up towards the solar plexus, gives extra oomph to the puch, and lowers your hips prior to turning in for the throw. Your hips are already low, rotate and grab hold, continue turning and pulling, there is your throw.
1/31/2006 11:06am, #10
As a tall guy with weak legs, seoi has always been my weakest throw. IMO this is a throw for shorter people with powerfull legs. That is not to say it cant be done by guys like me, but your entry has to be perfect.
I prefer a 'whipping' type of entry. By that I mean I need my opponent to be coming in a circle and stepping forward. I do that by yanking them around the mat with footsweep attempts. It is possible I will throw in a few Ouchi attempts for some backward pressure that they have to push forward to avoid. Once I get those motions in I find my seoi is much easier because my opponent is moving into and around me.
For example. I might use a weak right side Ouchi attempt. Then attack a couple of times with tsurikomi. Then real quick fake another Ouchi attempt, but change it to seoi.
But I think MOST people's problem with seoi (including my own) is that I do not pull hard enough and I do not get low enough. Its funny when you see yourself on film because it looks like you just jumped in there and leaned over. That **** is NOT gonna work. Now your specific problem sounds like you are trying to stand back up in the middle of the throw or are losing your balance. For that - I would practice the specific part of the throw without a partner, then with a partner trying to isolate the balance aspect of that throw.