218306 Bullies, 6016 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 43
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Tommy is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Davis, CA
    Posts
    35

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 11:40am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, San Shou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Questioning Kung Fu

    Mornin' everyone. The following post talks a bit about my experience with martial arts and the questions I've been thinking about. I'm thinking out loud and looking for some no-nonsense input.

    I'm currently practicing sanshou kickboxing, but my first martial art experience was with kung fu back in early 2000. The teacher was reputable, but there was one major problem... no sparring. The school used to have a (full-contact) sparring program, led by the teacher, but reportedly interest dropped and the sparring class was too poorly attended to merit continuation. The issue was that people would try it out, feel some pain, and decide that they didn't want to fight. The forms sure are pretty, though...

    So during my time there, if we wanted to spar we did it on our own. Since the teacher wasn't giving us guidance for fighting with the style, we either tried to figure it out as best we could or we kickboxed (some of us were trained in kickboxing, muay thai, sanshou, etc.) with a few kung fu moves thrown in. Needless to say, very few kung fu-specific techniques made it into our sparring practice, and what we learned at the kwoon was entirely separate from our sparring, which never seemed right to me.

    After a few years, I started taking sanshou for the sparring aspect, since I couldn't get that from the kung fu school. As I learned it I found that the principles of the boxing, kicking, and takedown techniques were actually very much in line with the principles I learned for kung fu; they just looked different on the outside. I tried to reconcile these things, and I consulted a lot of other kung fu students and my teacher trying to figure out how I could make my kung fu work the way that sanshou works.

    The most useful thing I heard was: the techniques in the forms are exaggerated to show the principles/energy more clearly. In actual application, the movements are smaller and simpler. This, of course, brings up the question, "why do we practice it this way if we use it that way?" The only real explanation I can think of is that forms aren't meant to be the primary training method, and more time should be spent with the simplified fighting moves than the exaggerated ones in the routines. I have yet to see a kung fu school that practices accordingly.

    Could kung fu be effective if practiced this way, with its emphasis on using a few simple moves to spar? That would certainly bring it more in line with the successful combat sports.

    There are some kung fu schools that have sparring programs, but most of them seem to be the same sort of modern sanshou you'd see Cung Le doing; that is, it's disconnected from their forms. This is evident even with the teachers who learned in China and then immigrated here to the United States. That makes me wonder.

    One thing that confuses me in particular is that kungfu was clearly used for fighting at some point; that's how schools built reputation back in the day and, in fact, was the entire reason for their existence. Did we lose the application somewhere along the way? Has kung fu become crap, or is it just that people are so interested in the movies and culture that they don't train the way they need to in order to fight? It's certainly true that most kung fu students I've met are primarily interested in things other than fighting.

    We know that kung fu isn't respected on these boards. Does anyone here believe that it could be a useful fighting system if trained correctly? Or have you written it off as a load of crap that isn't even worth the consideration?
  2. wagamichi is offline
    wagamichi's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,405

    Points
    6,535
    Achievements:
    1 year registeredCreated Album pictures5000 Experience Points

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 11:46am


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy

    We know that kung fu isn't respected on these boards. Does anyone here believe that it could be a useful fighting system if trained correctly? Or have you written it off as a load of crap that isn't even worth the consideration?

    Well I train in the tsai's family art of shaolin chuan fa. It is all about fighting. There are so many kung-fu systems that you can't really make a blanket statment that kung fu sucks. Mant of the kung fu teachers today seem to have been the geeks enthraled by grasshoper on the tv show. A lot of kung fu is more like little mini-cults created to kiss the sifus ass. some are still about fighting though, and many are really good at it.
  3. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,199

    Points
    8,548
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 11:47am


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This has been addressed 10 billion times before. The answer to your question is "Yes Kung Fu is effective when trained properly." MOST Kung Fu isn't respected on this board because it sucks. However, our Moderators and role models Omega and Asia both use Kung Fu to good extent. JFS USA and Dale Dugas also use Kung Fu effectively.

    Use the search function in the future. Welcome to Bullshido.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,923

    Points
    32,864
    Achievements:
    OverdriveTagger Second Class50000 Experience PointsThree Friends3 months registered

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 12:48pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy
    Mornin' everyone. The following post talks a bit about my experience with martial arts and the questions I've been thinking about. I'm thinking out loud and looking for some no-nonsense input.

    I'm currently practicing sanshou kickboxing, but my first martial art experience was with kung fu back in early 2000. The teacher was reputable, but there was one major problem... no sparring. The school used to have a (full-contact) sparring program, led by the teacher, but reportedly interest dropped and the sparring class was too poorly attended to merit continuation. The issue was that people would try it out, feel some pain, and decide that they didn't want to fight. The forms sure are pretty, though...

    So during my time there, if we wanted to spar we did it on our own. Since the teacher wasn't giving us guidance for fighting with the style, we either tried to figure it out as best we could or we kickboxed (some of us were trained in kickboxing, muay thai, sanshou, etc.) with a few kung fu moves thrown in. Needless to say, very few kung fu-specific techniques made it into our sparring practice, and what we learned at the kwoon was entirely separate from our sparring, which never seemed right to me.

    After a few years, I started taking sanshou for the sparring aspect, since I couldn't get that from the kung fu school. As I learned it I found that the principles of the boxing, kicking, and takedown techniques were actually very much in line with the principles I learned for kung fu; they just looked different on the outside. I tried to reconcile these things, and I consulted a lot of other kung fu students and my teacher trying to figure out how I could make my kung fu work the way that sanshou works.

    The most useful thing I heard was: the techniques in the forms are exaggerated to show the principles/energy more clearly. In actual application, the movements are smaller and simpler. This, of course, brings up the question, "why do we practice it this way if we use it that way?" The only real explanation I can think of is that forms aren't meant to be the primary training method, and more time should be spent with the simplified fighting moves than the exaggerated ones in the routines. I have yet to see a kung fu school that practices accordingly.

    Could kung fu be effective if practiced this way, with its emphasis on using a few simple moves to spar? That would certainly bring it more in line with the successful combat sports.

    There are some kung fu schools that have sparring programs, but most of them seem to be the same sort of modern sanshou you'd see Cung Le doing; that is, it's disconnected from their forms. This is evident even with the teachers who learned in China and then immigrated here to the United States. That makes me wonder.

    One thing that confuses me in particular is that kungfu was clearly used for fighting at some point; that's how schools built reputation back in the day and, in fact, was the entire reason for their existence. Did we lose the application somewhere along the way? Has kung fu become crap, or is it just that people are so interested in the movies and culture that they don't train the way they need to in order to fight? It's certainly true that most kung fu students I've met are primarily interested in things other than fighting.

    We know that kung fu isn't respected on these boards. Does anyone here believe that it could be a useful fighting system if trained correctly? Or have you written it off as a load of crap that isn't even worth the consideration?

    Simple answer dude, in shadow boxing you use loose hands, you wouldn't do that upon impact in an actual sparring match or hitting a bag. When you practice your shoots in wrestling there's normally weight behind it but when you practic in the air your body placement is a bit different.

    Just the way of no partner training.
  5. losttrak is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Tx
    Posts
    348

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 1:13pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tommy, where do you train? Are you in Dallas by chance? =D
  6. Slydermv is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    912

    Points
    5,740
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 1:20pm


     Style: WTF TKD, BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy
    One thing that confuses me in particular is that kungfu was clearly used for fighting at some point; that's how schools built reputation back in the day and, in fact, was the entire reason for their existence. Did we lose the application somewhere along the way?
    I find this point particularily intresting. Anyone with knowledge have some comments?
  7. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,199

    Points
    8,548
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 2:43pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i heard that way back in the day it was legal in China for stronger schools to beat up weaker schools.

    So it might've just basically been the "schoolyard" quality control. Where the local bully beats everyone up until someone bigger comes into the picture. Once the teachers stop the bullying everyone turns into a wimp.

    Moral of the story is that bullying is just super.
  8. OZZ is offline
    OZZ's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    London,Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,211

    Points
    4,784
    Achievements:
    10000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 5:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blanket statements about kung fu are all too common.
    Not every style is the same, and the form faeries and pretenders do not represent the essence of kung fu.
    We in the CMA community know who among us is real. That is enough.
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
  9. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,199

    Points
    8,548
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 6:35pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually I'd say it's difficult to tell these days... simply because there are so @#%@#%ing many of us these days and nothing's regulated...

    we need a CMA version of Sherdog.
  10. shuaichiaorules is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    akron, ohio
    Posts
    108

    Posted On:
    1/31/2006 12:44pm


     Style: shuai chiao

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what do you guys consider kung fu? Are you talking internal martial arts. Kung fu just means practice and time, which can be considered for all forms of MA.
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.