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  1. ryanand is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 6:44pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Limey
    I was at my judo club's tourney on saturday. Saw a guy shoot in against one of our black belts. BB sprawled. As far as I know he's never wrestled, yet he still knew how to defend against the take down.

    Judo includes double leg and single leg take downs, judo does teach how to defend against those moves.
    and i would hope/expect that this is the case everywhere, but apparently it's not.
  2. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 7:06pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanand
    yes, my argument has changed as i've learned new information about the subject-- the topic is 2 judo QUESTIONS, and both have been answered, with debate over a piece of the second question.
    That's good enough for me, I'll leave the rest alone. It wasn't a bad debate.
  3. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 7:13pm

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     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ryanand, Judo is a pretty flexible art in it can be practiced in a way to make it applicable to what you want. There are spine and leg locks in the syllabus if you want to do gi grappling, MMA as well. Those techniques are not useful if you train for Judo comps because they are not allowed, but they are there.

    There are also a few judoka out there that want you to shoot in and take them to the ground, those guys get off on fighting on the ground. A wrestler runs the risk of getting subbed or choked out very easily by someone that wants to be taken down by some piss poor takedown. Best thing to do against a guy like that is keep it standing and try to go for a good throw.

    You are arguing about a weakness that shouldn't be there and probably isn't that common.
  4. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 7:28pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    That looks like its from the COMPLETE KANO JIU JITSU.

    Just an FYI on the book Katsukuma Higashi was not strictly a Kodokan Judoka he was another jiujitsu school exponent as well.
    From the "Preface by the Japanese Author"

    ...
    The Kano system, at the time of its adoption by the Japanese government, consisted of forty-seven tricks of combat and fifteen "serious" tricks. Additions and amplifications have been made by those great teachers, Hoshino and Tsutsumi, until now the complete system, as we teach it, comprises one hundread and sixty tricks.
    ...
    it is not surprising, therefore, that the highest evolution of our ancient Japanese style of combat should come about in these days through the efforts of Professor Jiguro Kano. To him we owe much, and also to Messrs. Hoshino and Tsutsumi, who, by their toil, have rounded out the Kano system to its present perfection and supremacy.
    See http://www.bestjudo.com/brcompletekanojiujitsu.shtml

    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Also I think he fought Yukio Tani in a grudge match an lost.
    Yep.

    From http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Noble_1000.htm

    For the record, Tani did win a "World Championship" contest against another Japanese, Katsukuma Higashi. [EN3] The match took place at Bostock's Hippodrome in Paris on November 30, 1905. Tani was clearly the superior jujutsu man, but the contest ended unsatisfactorily after two minutes when the fighters went to the ground and Tani's foot caught Higashi in the groin. (The latter had to be taken to the hospital.) [EN4] But it was a meaningless title, and Tani himself probably knew it. Even the Health and Strength report of the match (January 1, 1906) noted "that Tani proved himself to be the better of the two would appear to render the alleged championship at stake to be somewhat of a farcical nature. For there are two other Jap wrestlers now in this country both of whom are admittedly his superiors; and it is more than probable that there are better exponents of the science than any we have seen who have never hitherto quitted their native islands."
    The footnote [EN3] notes Higashi's style as Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu.
  5. ryanand is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 8:01pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    That's good enough for me, I'll leave the rest alone. It wasn't a bad debate.
    :eusa_clap good game.
  6. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 9:37pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    Don't worry about going for the submission - you should first get your dominant position, that is, osaekomi. Then you've got 25 seconds to work for a submission.

    If you want more time, just keep an eye on the scorers table, let him break the hold after yuko and continue.

    If a guy just pulls you into guard, make him *earn* the right to keep you on the ground. If he's actively seeking subs, the ref's will let him continue. If he's just stalling in the guard, waiting for you to do something stupid, then you just as well stall yourself.

    There is a positional game in judo, but it's different than the BJJ positional game - you want more ne-waza time, you just need to work within the rules.

    Thanks for the advice. I'm new to judo, so I got a lot of learning to do to play within the rules.
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2006 10:01pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo

    The footnote [EN3] notes Higashi's style as Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu.
    I knew I should have checked EJMAS. But that is correct his style was Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu JJ thus the book on Completel Kano JJ was not a purely Kodokan work.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2006 6:49am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MONGO
    Ryanand, Judo is a pretty flexible art in it can be practiced in a way to make it applicable to what you want. There are spine and leg locks in the syllabus if you want to do gi grappling, MMA as well. Those techniques are not useful if you train for Judo comps because they are not allowed, but they are there.

    There are also a few judoka out there that want you to shoot in and take them to the ground, those guys get off on fighting on the ground. A wrestler runs the risk of getting subbed or choked out very easily by someone that wants to be taken down by some piss poor takedown. Best thing to do against a guy like that is keep it standing and try to go for a good throw.

    You are arguing about a weakness that shouldn't be there and probably isn't that common.
    Mongo, what exactly is the difference between "We have secret grappling techniques hidden in our kata" and what you just said? The way I see it, if you don't practice it in your style, it ain't there.
  9. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2006 7:36am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He is saying a totally different thing.

    A single leg and double leg (morote gari) are in the Judo ciriculum and not HIDDEN. It simply there are other methods perfered over them because as I stated before, doing a standard shoot in the guy isn't always easy with the gi. However Russian and Euro Judoka are known for pullng these things off.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  10. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2006 8:50am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I've seen double legs in judo comps too, I was referring more to his claims of spine and leglocks. That is most certainly not the standard in any judo I've seen, in fact I was told by the BB of the judo club I trained in that "leglocks don't work."

    Perhaps it is different in the US?
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