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  1. Castel is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 1:29am


     Style: TKD, JKD, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Limey
    2) Do you think people are better off learning to kick the air at first or going straight to kicking shields?
    Oh hell yes kicking the air first is important.
    Havent you seen those clips of Kickboxers or MMA fighters shins snapping the opposite way resulting from a wrong kick?
    Any fool can throw a kick, but getting the right posture and positioning can enhance the power and accuracy greatly.
    But concetrating on form is more foundational than just wildly kicking sloppy at first.

    I always perfer kicking a pad. Im just at the point where I need to feel my shin or foot drive into something though I kick the air when I shadowbox every now and then.
    I also want to have power kicks like Mirko Filopovic....so I enjoy the sound of a loud bang.
    Last edited by Castel; 1/26/2006 2:04am at .
  2. bhamtsd is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 12:38pm


     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll second "kicking air" first. Too many beginners focus more on making a big impact (in disregard to their body mechanics) than technique. Once the technique is solid though, focusing on a target really helps with power delivery and follow through.

    Im in a TMA school so we start with floor drills as a group air-kicking and then pair up for pad work.

    BhamTSD
  3. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 2:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pads/Bags and Sheilds are definitly the way to go, but what can happen sometimes is that people end up hitting the soid object hard on the surface but not following through and penetrating. When you're shadowboxing spinning through on a roundkick is essential as stopping and resetting can seriouly damage your joints.
  4. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 3:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Go with me...

    FLASHBACK!

    ... to the year 1993...Austin Texas...location: The Dojo.

    A huge central martial arts location that was the Mecca in Austin back in the day had many teachers teaching a variety of arts at the time. The even had Ninjas. Our (not ninjas) class was more of a mixed martial arts reality based self defense class.

    Ralph Severe had a ninja seminar there one weekend. All the ninjas were there. And considering it was Austin TX in the early 90's you can imagine there were a LOT of them. Mostly pimply faced pale skinny white college students. Let me put it this way - The martial arts population was pretty evenly divided between dorky WC students and dorky ninjas at the time.

    One segment of the seminar had the ninja techniques. Then came the 'test'. They took the kicking shields out to 'measure power'. A big treat for these guys obviously. Because they had all been doing kicks in the air, and kicks during technique work with a partner (which meant stopping the kick before it actually touched). I think you get the idea. They were not used to kicking bags, pads, or using full power. So what you saw was the inevitable flippity-kick. No penetration surface kicks. Lots of exhaling.

    Some of us were just standing there. Looking very shocked.

    I've told this story before and the details are a little hazy but it is funny none the less. Ralph offers for a few of us to kick the shield.

    FLOORED.

    His bag holder has to get up off the ground or is literally knocked backwards 5 feet from every kick. Obviously they were not used to actually receiving those kicks, even through a shield, either. We were kinda grinning a little bit. The ninjas were all kinda milling around watching us silently. Ralph got his 'assistant' to hold the shield.

    FLOORED.

    We were taught that technique was secondary to power. Full power every time. From the first class even our beginners were stressed power. Oftentimes at the expense of form. Our instructors reasoning was that most students wouldn't be taking martial arts that long, and that in any fight you are probably only really going to get one kick...so make it count. Full power.

    And we let that **** loose on the ninjas.

    WHAM. WHAM. WHAM.

    Every kick. Full power. Every time the bag holder was knocked around like a fucking rag doll.

    So Ralph goes over to my instructor and asks him, How long have these guys been training? My instructor tells them, like a year or so. Ralph was shocked....

    And Ralph finally says, (trying to quote from memory here)....We don't show them how to develop real power until 2nd or 3rd dan.


    So what am I saying? Full power on shields > air kicking.
  5. losttrak is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 3:49pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    I dunno about throwing kicks in isolation, but as part of shadow boxing it can be pretty useful. It's good to be used to throwing a technique, missing, and not just stopping and resetting, but following through and continuing to move. If you're only used to kicking pads, you'll be rather thrown off when you actually miss a kick.

    I think that sums it up.
  6. t-man is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 3:55pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We would learn the techniques, then practice them without hitting anything, then learn combinations, incoporate them into shadow boxing etc, and then use the pads. I noticed just how bad I really was when I did combinations on the pads with a partner!
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 4:03pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    <3 Yrkoon's stories.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 4:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Castel
    Oh hell yes kicking the air first is important.
    Havent you seen those clips of Kickboxers or MMA fighters shins snapping the opposite way resulting from a wrong kick?
    Any fool can throw a kick, but getting the right posture and positioning can enhance the power and accuracy greatly.
    But concetrating on form is more foundational than just wildly kicking sloppy at first.

    Are you honestly suggesting they were fools who never concentrated on "form" and never learned to get "the right posture and positioning"?


    How exactly does practice kicking air prevent shin breaks when someone subsequently slams their shin into another shin? Please provide medical references.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 1/26/2006 4:26pm at .
  9. losttrak is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 7:05pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Are you honestly suggesting they were fools who never concentrated on "form" and never learned to get "the right posture and positioning"?


    How exactly does practice kicking air prevent shin breaks when someone subsequently slams their shin into another shin? Please provide medical references.

    Come on, letís not break into pedantics. I don't think he is stating that the act of kicking air directly prevents shin breaks. You are capitalizing on his blatant leap in reasoning in which he did not explain his "flow of consciousness. =P
  10. feedback is offline
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    UAAAH!

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 7:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It depends on the kind of kick for where you learn it first. When I teach people how to throw a thai style roundhouse, I show them the steps involved and puppet their legs for them to execute the kick. After they understand the mechanics some, I have them hit the bag or pads under my supervision, and then back to air to fix it. Back and forth, back and forth. The thai roundhouse may be a special case though, because there are a lot of small technical details, and the difference between a landed roundkick (bag) and a missed roundkick (air) are enormous.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
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