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  1. Lucky Seven is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 2:28pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What ? Two guys with guns, trained to use them got killed by unarmed people ?
    Thats fucked up
  2. Dagon Akujin is offline
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    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 2:29pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Seven
    A bigger oponent even untrained can punch hard, can be a tough ************ and take the blows, can make it very hard for you to get in striking range without fearing his arms/legsbeeing big he has more range remember that striking, better or worse is instinctive, but the moment you take him to the ground its another world, you can be the size, strenght you want, you WILL pass out to a well aplied choke, your arm will break as easy as the next guy, and if everything fails you can allways close guard and try neutralising him by holding thight to him, he is bigger chances are he will tire faster then you. :cachas:
    I still don't think that this is the case (or that it's all as easy as you make this sound). When a larger guy knows that he is outskilled in stand-up he normally tries to innitiate grappling/grabbing. You guys act like striking isn't or can't be technical. ;)

    And a bigger guy *is* harder to subdue on the ground, even with lots of technical ability. Now, I'd say that may he has absolutely no groundfighting ability or wrestling ability and that sure, yeah, well, everyone has a little natural striking ability. I'm 150. I've plenty of times wrestled guys that were much larger than me. Oftentimes that strength and size could frustrate my more technical abilities. Plus I've had to deal with knowing that if punches were allowed, it'd be a much different game on the ground (and I probably would not have submitted state wrestlers as much who were 100 pounds heavier than me). But in striking, it seems to me that when you outclass someone larger, they go into wrestling mode.

    As for UFC 1-4, we all know that the reason grappling showcased so well was because most of the guys in there did absolutely no training against it. Now that everyone trains in it a little, they've had to add weight classes as size has become a much larger advantage. Then again though, boxing has had weight classes for eons too.

    Hmmm... I guess I don't think either of us has a very iron-clad argument. Gong-Sau! :XXbuzzsaw

    Dagon Akujin
  3. G8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 3:08pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    I still don't think that this is the case (or that it's all as easy as you make this sound). When a larger guy knows that he is outskilled in stand-up he normally tries to innitiate grappling/grabbing. You guys act like striking isn't or can't be technical. ;)

    And a bigger guy *is* harder to subdue on the ground, even with lots of technical ability. Now, I'd say that may he has absolutely no groundfighting ability or wrestling ability and that sure, yeah, well, everyone has a little natural striking ability. I'm 150. I've plenty of times wrestled guys that were much larger than me. Oftentimes that strength and size could frustrate my more technical abilities. Plus I've had to deal with knowing that if punches were allowed, it'd be a much different game on the ground (and I probably would not have submitted state wrestlers as much who were 100 pounds heavier than me). But in striking, it seems to me that when you outclass someone larger, they go into wrestling mode.

    As for UFC 1-4, we all know that the reason grappling showcased so well was because most of the guys in there did absolutely no training against it. Now that everyone trains in it a little, they've had to add weight classes as size has become a much larger advantage. Then again though, boxing has had weight classes for eons too.

    Hmmm... I guess I don't think either of us has a very iron-clad argument. Gong-Sau! :XXbuzzsaw

    Dagon Akujin
    Here's the difference in training doesn't-work-on-teh-st33t grappling and deadly, deadly striking:

    BJJ guy gets bullrushed by untrained 250-lb. Tank Abbot wannabe, goes down but controls the takedown, pulls guard and quickly sweeps, slides to the back, scoots out and stands back up, or ties up Tank2's arms until the bouncer breaks it up.

    Kenpo guy gets bullrushed by untrained 250-lb. Tank Abbot wannabe, throws deadly strike that **gasp** doesn't shatter Tank2 like porcelain or stop his forward momentum, gets slammed and mounted, and just has time to think "damn, I should have studied grappling" before the lights go out.
  4. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 3:16pm

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     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StreetOnly

    Don't talk crap, and run, best street advice not taught in any martial art schools.
    Martial arts schools do often tell kids this, but why spend more than the half a minute it takes to say it? The kids parents should be the ones to teach kids their manners, not martial arts teachers.

    If an adult doesn't know this basic premise of manners, telling him so probably won't matter.
  5. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 3:38pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    Here's the difference in training doesn't-work-on-teh-st33t grappling and deadly, deadly striking:

    BJJ guy gets bullrushed by untrained 250-lb. Tank Abbot wannabe, goes down but controls the takedown, pulls guard and quickly sweeps, slides to the back, scoots out and stands back up, or ties up Tank2's arms until the bouncer breaks it up.

    Kenpo guy gets bullrushed by untrained 250-lb. Tank Abbot wannabe, throws deadly strike that **gasp** doesn't shatter Tank2 like porcelain or stop his forward momentum, gets slammed and mounted, and just has time to think "damn, I should have studied grappling" before the lights go out.

    ,rice bag throw, control arm , roll to the key lock.
    it get you to your feet faster and if you miss you can pull guard.

    a snap row would work, you roll his head into the foor

    the answer to a bullrush are ez
    Last edited by rexkwon; 1/25/2006 3:52pm at .
  6. Firebrand is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 3:49pm


     Style: BJJ, Sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you can only learn one art, BJJ is a good way to go. As others have said, it teaches you what to do in a worst case scenario. If you are fighting some fella more than 100 pounds heavier and he is mounting you, BJJ could save your life. Don't know too many standup arts that can do that.

    That said, I don't know that I fully agree with those who feel that BJJ may not be useful against multiple attackers but neither are the standup arts. If you were outnumbered two to one but outweigh your attackers by more than 100 pounds, it'd probably be easier to defend yourself with some hard solid shots than to take your chances on the ground. BJJ has some good moves for that also but standup techniques tends to be emphasized less.
    Last edited by Firebrand; 1/25/2006 4:31pm at .
  7. Dagon Akujin is offline
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    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 5:15pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WTF? How is it that I wrote a thought-out, non-derogatory, non-assuming post and brought out a bunch of BJJ nutsuckers? My god you miserable fucks, chill-out and stop wanting to **** everyone in the ass.

    G8: I never said grappling didn't work on the street. Quite the opposite. Read my other posts on this thread. And I never claimed that striking was the deadly. But what makes you think that dreaming up some imaginary fight between you and Tank is somehow a good argument that makes any point at all? Does that mean that I can say, "Hey, I can imagine punching him in the throat 20 times, so I win and you end up on your back."

    "blah blah blah... or stop his forward momentum, gets slammed and mounted..." That was EXACTLY my point. Thank you for not reading it in the first place.

    rexkwon: Another imaginary fight to "prove" your point? Is this common for you guys?

    Well then, I'm gonna bong-sau to a straight punch to the throat, followed by a tan with the other arm into another straight punch to the throat, followed by 18 more punches to the throat while all the girls in the bar get wet between their legs... What the **** kind of argument is that?

    I'm glad you can walk around living in some fantasy world where you take everyone to the ground to hump their leg. Did you guys even read my post? And I'm so glad that you think fighting Tank would be easy.

    Firebrand: Some arts DO practice dealing with multiple attackers. Stop acting like if BJJ doesn't practice it, then nobody does, or that BJJ is the only thing that could save your life. Isn't Bullshido supposed to flame anyone who's saying they have the only answer?



    If you guys are going to reply to this, please read the other things I've already said on this post instead of saying, "Oh, he doesn't think BJJ is the only deadly art in the world, so I must go flame him without having any clue what he's saying." Also, sorry for bring up all the old BJJ cliches and jokes to all of the rest of you BJJ guys who arn't being dicks. I don't think all of you are leg-humpers. But some of your compatriots really are worse than the _ing _un masturbation-toys who keep posting why their style is the only real WC/VT/WT with all the real answers :)

    Dagon Akujin :pottytrai
    Last edited by Dagon Akujin; 1/25/2006 5:18pm at . Reason: wrong brackets on bolds
  8. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 5:24pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    Firebrand: Some arts DO practice dealing with multiple attackers. Stop acting like if BJJ doesn't practice it, then nobody does, or that BJJ is the only thing that could save your life. Isn't Bullshido supposed to flame anyone who's saying they have the only answer?
    They pretend they can effectively deal with multiple attackers. And, as I have seen over the millennia, "Moy Tung Family Ving Tsun" certainly won't save your life against even a lowly gaunt who's very purpose is to die for it superiors.

    I can handle multiple attackers with BJJ, but more than two of them becomes difficult because I can only have one in each hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    I'm glad you can walk around living in some fantasy world where you take everyone to the ground to hump their leg. Did you guys even read my post? And I'm so glad that you think fighting Tank would be easy.
    You live in a fantasy world if you think you can deal with multiple Tank [Abbot]s at a time, or deal with one better standing than on the ground.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 1/25/2006 5:28pm at .
  9. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 5:36pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    For a differing perspective, the BJJer I train with is pretty critical of people who train for nothing but competitive grappling with the belief that the activity will transfer to self-defense without assistance. He's a big believer in training with different objectives so that he has the skills he needs, and in pointing out openings for non-sport techniques in his game.

    The assumption that grapplers can magically alter their game to one appropriate to the environment without ever training for it seems to be mainly rooted in the fact that most other arts are even more awful at this sort of thing because of their lack of live sparring.
    Helio spoke on how COMPETITION JJ should be a way to hone your SD skill and not just for competition sake. I always agreed with that.

    Still a grappler can adjust easier than most without always training for SD. The reason being is that the skill set and that is involve in grappling is going to work regardless of mindset. I don't know about you guys but eventhough the Football team got the glory it was the WRESTLERS that were feared at my HS.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
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  10. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 8:38pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin

    rexkwon: Another imaginary fight to "prove" your point? Is this common for you guys?

    Well then, I'm gonna bong-sau to a straight punch to the throat, followed by a tan with the other arm into another straight punch to the throat, followed by 18 more punches to the throat :)

    Dagon Akujin :pottytrai
    Cool if you can do it , I do the moves I wrote with a real 225 lb person so I know I can do that .That why it is so much easier to practice JJ and wrestling we can go full force . Lone big guy untrained I would go for the throw and contol .
    Last edited by rexkwon; 1/25/2006 9:17pm at .
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