Calling bullshido on ground fighting teachers.

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:58pm

Originally Posted by StreetOnly

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Maybe we need some critical analysis.

The typical WTF club emphasises high kicking as a primary strategy for combat -specifically prohibiting face punching and any meaningful grappling. The "self-defence" content of that club is also likely to be somewhat suspect in both content and entraining.

The typical BJJ club emphasises sport grappling (and/or MMA) which although it ids limited in scope like the WTF TKD's kicking strategy, is undeniably useful should you findyourself on the ground in a self-defence situation and also likely to give the student a better than average chance of not falling to the ground should someone attempt to grapple them.

So one of the two choices is relatively more applicable to self-defence than the other.

EDIT: your evasive and negative answer makes it look like you are so determined to be anti-BJJ that you cannot acknowledge its merits. denial....

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:59pm

Originally Posted by StreetOnly

Mostly online chats with BJJers. A few BJJ instructors that I've talk to, but I will not release anyone's name here, I don't think that is nesseccery.

It is necessary because you are calling bullshit on people. Give examples.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:02pm

Originally Posted by StreetOnly

Mostly online chats with BJJers. A few BJJ instructors that I've talk to, but I will not release anyone's name here, I don't think that is nesseccery.

Not enough. Especially when even the Gracies have said that the ground is not a good place to be in a battlefield situation.

Which, in the end, does not negate the value of GJJ or groundfighting at all for combat. You need to know it.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:04pm

My god, you're a fag.

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:08pm

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:21pm

why do you fuckers even answer these types of threads?

we should all post the following:

SHUT THE **** UP NOOB

READ THE FAQ

USE THE SEARCH BUTTON

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:21pm

And thats why I always bring 7+ bjj blue belts with me everywhere I go.

But seriously you shouldn't want to "be" anywhere in a street fight besides the best posible position for defence or escape. Being overly agressive can put you in jail. Your agression has to match the threat in the eyes of the law. So if you can keep it from esclating then you are doing ok. So rather then worry about taking the fight to the ground, just fight smart and go where you have to go to keep fighting safely. That might mean the ground, that might mean running like a bitch.

G8 · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:22pm

Originally Posted by StreetOnly

But when you have people claiming BJJ as the BEST art out there, saying things like if you can only affort to learn one art, you have to take BJJ. I believe that is bull ****. If you can only affort to learn one art, BJJ should be the LAST art you want to pick for street use. Stand up fighting should be your primary art, ground fighting should be a supplymental art.
]

Bullshit. BJJ or some equivalent form of groundfighting is damn well the first and most practical thing anyone interested in real-world self-defense should learn, simply because it provides practical "drownproofing" in a worst-case scenario. Weapons and multiple attackers aside (in which case you're fucked, period, your kenpo/Krav Maga/WTF training or secret identity as Bas Rutten notwithstanding), your biggest real-world nightmare is (or should be) getting mounted by a bigger, more powerful opponent and getting your skull hammered into the ground; that's both very common & a hundred times more dangerous than anything that's likely to happen on the feet. BJJ or any good ground system trains multiple practical ways to avoid that situation and to control, escape, or reverse it if it does happen. If I went to the ground with an untrained groundfighter, I'd very likely land on top; if I didn't, I wouldn't be on the bottom for long. I'd be able to work a reversal or simply get the hell up and run very quickly. At a minimum, I'd be able to tie up even a very large man in an MMA guard and keep my skull intact until the cavalry arrived. Those skills are vastly more "street" valuable than any kicky/punchy bullshit, which is essentially going to reduce to being stronger, faster or luckier than your opponent.

**Darkpaladin** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:44pm

Originally Posted by G8

Bullshit. BJJ or some equivalent form of groundfighting is damn well the first and most practical thing anyone interested in real-world self-defense should learn, simply because it provides practical "drownproofing" in a worst-case scenario. Weapons and multiple attackers aside (in which case you're fucked, period, your kenpo/Krav Maga/WTF training or secret identity as Bas Rutten notwithstanding), your biggest real-world nightmare is (or should be) getting mounted by a bigger, more powerful opponent and getting your skull hammered into the ground; that's both very common & a hundred times more dangerous than anything that's likely to happen on the feet. BJJ or any good ground system trains multiple practical ways to avoid that situation and to control, escape, or reverse it if it does happen. If I went to the ground with an untrained groundfighter, I'd very likely land on top; if I didn't, I wouldn't be on the bottom for long. I'd be able to work a reversal or simply get the hell up and run very quickly. At a minimum, I'd be able to tie up even a very large man in an MMA guard and keep my skull intact until the cavalry arrived. Those skills are vastly more "street" valuable than any kicky/punchy bullshit, which is essentially going to reduce to being stronger, faster or luckier than your opponent.

Amen.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 3:44pm

Originally Posted by StreetOnly

That, and keeping your mouth shut.

Don't talk crap, and run, best street advice not taught in any martial art schools.

Actually they do. This was the daily mantra of my Kempo instructor back in 92... or was it 93? I'm getting old.

Also, I heard exactly the same thing from my Escrima instructor this Saturday. That was my first class with him, and among a lot of common sense things, that's what he said. I also heard same things from Pablo Popovitch, my previous BJJ instructor.

Your experience with Martial Arts schools may have led you to believe they don't tell you to "shut up and run", but in my case, that was the message all the time.

Originally Posted by StreetOnly

Originally Posted by kickcatcher

A) A typical BJJ club
B) A typical WTF Tae Kwon Do club
?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

BJJ, or any type of ground fighting in general, is not wrong for the str33t. What's wrong is in how to use it. BJJ is a tool, and a tool has a specific purposes.

You don't use a hammer to remove a screw or bolt. You don't use a phillips screwdriver to place a nail on concrete. You don't use grade 50 sandpaper as toilet paper (unless you are into that sort of thing.) Same with BJJ. On the street, you don't go to the ground on purpose, but

* you need to know how to defend yourself so that you are not taken to the ground, and
* you need to know what to do if you cannot avoid being taken to the ground.

BJJ gives you that. Every tool has a purpose. BJJ is a good tool for a particular set of purposes. You gotta look at these things from a pragmatic point of view.

If someone tells you that BJJ is the best for self-defense, that's bullshit. If someone tells you that BJJ has no place for self-defense, that's bullshit, too.