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  1. bodar is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 5:33pm


     Style: none currently, ex-TSK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any pics or videos of this training?
  2. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 5:43pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bodar
    Any pics or videos of this training?

    Try these links (and yeah there are some but they are hard copy, I have no scanner, and would not post them with out Tanks blessing anyhow!)

    http://www.schoolofselfdefence.com/

    http://www.fighttimes.com/
    (this link has a bunch of pics, sadly Tank is not great at setting the scene at times with pics and video, he is however a good teacher and mentor)

    http://www.closecombatinstructors.co...ssociation.htm
    (YES some of the guys on this site are wingnuts, but I have met and trained with/under James Webb and Larry Jordan and they are the real deal!)

    Slan

    ENech
  3. Lucky Seven is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 7:34pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My two cents, it looks like good training, you train hard and that is good, altough maybe you would develop better if you where protections like gloves, maybe a boxing helmet, mounth guard and actually spar full force full speed, having no protection while striking is in my opinion dumb, you risk frequent injuries that let you off training for some time and doesnt let you practice full strenght against a resisting oponent.

    Also, do you grapple ? like clinch, ground fighting ?
  4. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 9:20pm


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For comparison purposes, how many phases are there before someone can be considered an instructor? As a rough comparison, if there are six belts before you obtains a black belt(junior instructor in many systems), and a person must go through 3 phases to become an instructor(I picked the number, it is not relevant), a phase would be equivalent to two belt levels.
  5. Yush is offline
    Yush's Avatar

    You secure that **** Hudson!!

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 9:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good stuff Enech.

    I'm pretty sure I saw an article on your school in a Blitz magazine a while back. I remember photo's of the tyre contraption and also your instructor (pretty sure it was him) grabbing someone by the nuts and dumping him on his head.

    Harsh stuff :)
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 9:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GOD I hate these MILITARY TYPES!!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. Vile is offline
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    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 10:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    RBSD mixed with Military CQC

    Hey Enech,

    I'm also in NZ - lived in Christchurch for a while and my instructor used to travel from Dunedin. From recollection your guys had a school in Christchurch that was in Linwood as well.

    Some of the stuff I saw was good, a lot of it was a little lacking. This is pretty easy to demonstrate from your claims - I get kicked in the knee full contact all the time, and I've never had anything worse than bruises. Anyone who does KK or MT will back that up. Striking to the neck can be nasty, but again in practical situations it doesn't work like that - as you say you don't even SIMULATE a blow to the neck, so how the hell do you know what it will and can do?

    Think - you practice your kicking by kciking a tyre as fast as you can for 20-30 minutes.... WHY? What fight lasts that long? How does this aid your technique?

    You call bareknuckle fighting a lost art and state people make "boxers fists". You are wrong. The difference in bareknuckle (refer for example to "The Manly Art" by Elliot J Gorn) is in the strike areas and techniques. The fist is made the same way - they just worked the body and threw only short straight punches to the face. Boxers breaking their hands in street fights comes from them throwing hooks to the head in the most part. Just stupid training.

    NZ Army CQC is pretty much watered down BJJ with some weapon work added in. You guys don't seem to incorporate the techniques they do, when they discarded a lot of what you train in in favour of what they do now. Any thoughts on why?

    You have to realise that the training you are doing (as YOU said) is based on the WW2 Spec Ops training. This is, quite simply, a BUDGET option. Why? Becasue it was designed to teach people a set of quick dirty skills that would help them perform if they had to use them. Its been said before and needs saying again - H2H is the LEAST needed combat skill for modern soldiers. If you are engaging someone without a weapon face to face you fucked up. The training you are talking about seems to be designed for use on unprepared people (offensive rather than defensive) assumes an unskilled opponent (emphasis on knee kicks and knife hands - do you KNOW how slow a knife hand with any power behind it is? Plam strikes and elbows work a lot better though - I agree with you on that).

    There was a CQB instructor in Dunedin about 10 years ago who did a lot of door work. Made a lot of statements about how many fihgts he had won. Not sure if that was one of your guys or not, but the crux of it coming from other doormen in Dunedin was that the guy made a practice of beating the crap out of drunks who could barely walk. Not something to brag about.

    Couple of questions: How do you teach defence against a kick to the knee? Just curious as getting a hyper-extended knee from a kick sounds like you didn't have a defence in place. Also, as asked before, do you guys to ground work and roll at all? I realise (from Todds website) that you seem to hold martial arts competition in disdain, but some of your guys competing in NZ NHB fights woudl go a long way towards validating your statements. Given that only biting, eye gouging and groin strikes are banned you should be able to go all out (yep - that means you can use your deadly neck strikes and knee kicks) since those limitations will also affect your oppontent. But then that might prove a few things eh? Like the comments I made before regarding it being a quick and dirty system? Hell, I know thats all 90% of fights need, but I'd rather take the time and learn a full system (or 2 or 3) and be able to work against a trained person as well as your average rugby player.

    BTW Rugby isn't a martial art - its a code of combat....
    Sociopaths are people too.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 11:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vile
    Boxers breaking their hands in street fights comes from them throwing hooks to the head in the most part. Just stupid training.

    It also comes from two factors: 1. They hit fucking hard! and 2. No one gives a **** about anyone else breaking their hand because the upcoming fight card doesn't get canceled, so you don't hear about it.
  9. Memnoch1207 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 11:18pm


     Style: Boxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    He stated that it was not unusual for people to leave sessions with broken noses or worse,(one guy had to be taken to the hospital with a broken arm).
    All that means is it's a bunch of people who can't control themselves properly.

    The times that I have been injured during training we a result of the individual attempting the technique at a speed beyond they're ability to maintain proper control. Luckily it only resulted in hyper-extensions of my limbs and not broken bones.

    Nobody in their right mind wants to get hurt during training, because then you can't train until you heal. And for some of us not being able to train is like a 3 year old being placed in timeout, all we're gonna do is bitch and complain.
  10. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 7:36am


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Seven
    My two cents, it looks like good training, you train hard and that is good, altough maybe you would develop better if you where protections like gloves, maybe a boxing helmet, mounth guard and actually spar full force full speed, having no protection while striking is in my opinion dumb, you risk frequent injuries that let you off training for some time and doesnt let you practice full strenght against a resisting oponent.

    Also, do you grapple ? like clinch, ground fighting ?

    The most we wear is a mouth guard as was train for real life, thus you can wear the head gear IF you want but the rest is sans! The exception would pugil stick training.

    Yes we grapple and do ground fighting, that is MOSTLY phase two and I only learned a little before I moved to the USA. Phase one does "wraps" to tie an opponent up, Phase two actually does control and restraint and ground fighting, phase three ... well that is (from what I saw) a different creature!
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